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So who made Dallas Cup?

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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by wembleys on 2/20/2014, 12:52 pm

that's why I started my comments with  a  Suspect Suspect Suspect

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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by soccerdadrandy on 2/20/2014, 12:54 pm

wembleys wrote:got it - ! i think you are more useful than PG-Boy anyway ...   Very Happy

lol i don't want to ruin any love affair with you and PG-Boy. It is extremely confusing when you move to international birth years (Jan 1) which is how the PA and DA teams are as these boys get ready to move onto US National team play. AND then play in "club soccer" tournaments bounce bounce 
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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by BBB on 2/20/2014, 12:55 pm

The key thing is that eligible birth dates for U-13 tournament are Aug 00 - July 01. So all FCD U-13 PA players born between Aug and Dec 00 can play in U-13 tournament. All the club needs to do is to add them to the roster of team Called FCD U-12 PA. Clear?
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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by wembleys on 2/20/2014, 12:56 pm

soccerdadrandy wrote:
wembleys wrote:got it - ! i think you are more useful than PG-Boy anyway ...   Very Happy

lol i don't want to ruin any love affair with you and PG-Boy. It is extremely confusing when you move to international birth years (Jan 1) which is how the PA and DA teams are as these boys get ready to move onto US National team play. AND then play in "club soccer" tournaments bounce bounce 

too late!!!  lol!
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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by soccerdadrandy on 2/20/2014, 12:56 pm

JustFutbol wrote:
wembleys wrote:
soccerdadrandy wrote:
wembleys wrote:
Laroja_2012 wrote:actually, they did not win, they lost to Tigres 1-0.

these are the u13 - FC DALLAS ACADEMY 01 - listed as U13 at DC not U12 PA... am I drinking too much DayQuil? or maybe I need more !!!

Where is PG-Boy when you need him?

a u12 pre academy team has u13 players on it! kids born jan1-july31 that are 01 club players thus it is a u13 team with some u12 boys also born late 01 but play on 02 (u12)club teams

you mean that the team that almost won Bobby Rhine did not have '00 boys?



There should be no '00 birth year kids on a U12 PA team.  The U12 PA teams have to play up in the U13 Division in the Bobby Rhine DT Fall Festival as well as the Dallas Cup.  If FCD U12 PA used '00 birth year kids in the Bobby Rhine then they were circumventing the rules.

correct!!! oo birth years are u13 pre academy and play up in u14
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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by JustFutbol on 2/20/2014, 1:01 pm

dd1 wrote:The key thing is that eligible birth dates for U-13 tournament are Aug 00 - July 01. So all FCD U-13 PA players born between Aug and Dec 00 can play in U-13 tournament. All the club needs to do is to add them to the roster of team Called FCD U-12 PA. Clear?




If that is the case then they are no longer a U12 PA team. So once they add the older players to the roster then they are breaking the US Club Soccer Rules for the PA team. Either way they are circumventing the rules.

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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by earbucket on 2/20/2014, 1:03 pm

dd1 wrote:The key thing is that eligible birth dates for U-13 tournament are Aug 00 - July 01. So all FCD U-13 PA players born between Aug and Dec 00 can play in U-13 tournament. All the club needs to do is to add them to the roster of team Called FCD U-12 PA. Clear?

So did the Aug-Dec 00 players play with FCD 01 Pre-A in the Bobby Rhine tournament?

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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by murito on 2/20/2014, 1:03 pm

dd1 wrote:The key thing is that eligible birth dates for U-13 tournament are Aug 00 - July 01. So all FCD U-13 PA players born between Aug and Dec 00 can play in U-13 tournament. All the club needs to do is to add them to the roster of team Called FCD U-12 PA. Clear?

Or you can invoke the SU Rule #Numero Uno and bring 18 year old boys born in 2000

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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by soccerdadrandy on 2/20/2014, 1:04 pm

JustFutbol wrote:
dd1 wrote:The key thing is that eligible birth dates for U-13 tournament are Aug 00 - July 01. So all FCD U-13 PA players born between Aug and Dec 00 can play in U-13 tournament. All the club needs to do is to add them to the roster of team Called FCD U-12 PA. Clear?




If that is the case then they are no longer a U12 PA team.  So once they add the older players to the roster then they are breaking the US Club Soccer Rules for the PA team.  Either way they are circumventing the rules.

you are confused sir
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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by wembleys on 2/20/2014, 1:08 pm

soccerdadrandy wrote:
JustFutbol wrote:
dd1 wrote:The key thing is that eligible birth dates for U-13 tournament are Aug 00 - July 01. So all FCD U-13 PA players born between Aug and Dec 00 can play in U-13 tournament. All the club needs to do is to add them to the roster of team Called FCD U-12 PA. Clear?




If that is the case then they are no longer a U12 PA team.  So once they add the older players to the roster then they are breaking the US Club Soccer Rules for the PA team.  Either way they are circumventing the rules.

you are confused sir

ok soccerdadrandy i am loosing fait on you rather quickly … I am already missing PG-boy…  Embarassed 
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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by soccerdadrandy on 2/20/2014, 1:14 pm

earbucket wrote:
dd1 wrote:The key thing is that eligible birth dates for U-13 tournament are Aug 00 - July 01. So all FCD U-13 PA players born between Aug and Dec 00 can play in U-13 tournament. All the club needs to do is to add them to the roster of team Called FCD U-12 PA. Clear?

So did the Aug-Dec 00 players play with FCD 01 Pre-A in the Bobby Rhine tournament?

not if it was a true pa team. they may have just played as a u13 club team
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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by soccerdadrandy on 2/20/2014, 1:17 pm

dd1 wrote:Here is what I take as a hint. U-13 PA is not playing in U-14 DC bracket, even though they were ahead of DT U13-PA. They must have declined and that actually got DTR in.

What I think this means is that younger FCD PA-13 players (Aug-Dec 00) will be used to strenghten U-12 PA (note that in U-13 tournablemt Aug 00 - Jul 01 are eligible birth dates, so they can do this, if they choose so, and teams from California did this last year as well). Few older PA-13 players (Jan - July 00) that remain may be added to FCD Premier 00 roster as guest-players in U-14 tournamnet, so they do not miss out.

If FCD does this then U-12 PA would be very competetive indeed.

But all this is just a speculation on my part.

and IF that is what happened they competed as a u13 club team not a true pa team. they just NOT be able to roster older boys for a true u13 pa game  bounce bounce 
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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by soccerdadrandy on 2/20/2014, 1:18 pm

wembleys wrote:
soccerdadrandy wrote:
JustFutbol wrote:
dd1 wrote:The key thing is that eligible birth dates for U-13 tournament are Aug 00 - July 01. So all FCD U-13 PA players born between Aug and Dec 00 can play in U-13 tournament. All the club needs to do is to add them to the roster of team Called FCD U-12 PA. Clear?




If that is the case then they are no longer a U12 PA team.  So once they add the older players to the roster then they are breaking the US Club Soccer Rules for the PA team.  Either way they are circumventing the rules.

you are confused sir

ok soccerdadrandy i am loosing fait on you rather quickly … I am already missing PG-boy…  Embarassed 

come back to me grasshopper how can i help?
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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by wembleys on 2/20/2014, 1:29 pm

soccerdadrandy wrote:
dd1 wrote:Here is what I take as a hint. U-13 PA is not playing in U-14 DC bracket, even though they were ahead of DT U13-PA. They must have declined and that actually got DTR in.

What I think this means is that younger FCD PA-13 players (Aug-Dec 00) will be used to strenghten U-12 PA (note that in U-13 tournablemt Aug 00 - Jul 01 are eligible birth dates, so they can do this, if they choose so, and teams from California did this last year as well). Few older PA-13 players (Jan - July 00) that remain may be added to FCD Premier 00 roster as guest-players in U-14 tournamnet, so they do not miss out.

If FCD does this then U-12 PA would be very competetive indeed.

But all this is just a speculation on my part.

and IF that is what happened they competed as a u13 club team not a true pa team. they just NOT be able to roster older boys for a true u13 pa game  bounce bounce 

 Suspect  they were listed on  Bobby Rhine as a PA team, but I know for sure they were NOT U12 boys Smile
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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by BBB on 2/20/2014, 1:30 pm

This is DC we're talking about. So what I said above is quite legal, for DC.
and
It does not matter how is that team called. It can be U-12 PA or U-13 PA or FCD-Pink. What matters is that all players are eligible to play in U-13 tournament. And they/FCD achieved this by combining U-12PA and U-13PA players that have eligible birth dates. You can do this stuff with PA teams (after all PA players can be dual-roistered and play classic as well). What really surprises me is why is this so difficult to understand, and why would this be cheating? After all it is cub that competes and they want to bring their best players, for given age group. Do you think that overseas teams, for example, when they come over would not add few Aug-Dec 00 born players to their 01-pure rosters if tournament rules allow for it and they think that would make them more competitive?
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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by wembleys on 2/20/2014, 1:34 pm

dd1 wrote:This is DC we're talking about. So what I said above is quite legal, for DC.
and
It does not matter how is that team called. It can be U-12 PA or U-13 PA or FCD-Pink. What matters is that all players are eligible to play in U-13 tournament.  And they/FCD achieved this by combining U-12PA and U-13PA players that have eligible birth dates. You can do this stuff with PA teams (after all PA players can be dual-roistered and play classic as well). What really surprises me is why is this so difficult to understand, and why would this be cheating? After all it is cub that competes and they want to bring their best players, for given age group. Do you think that overseas teams, for example, when they come over would not add few Aug-Dec 00 born players to their 01-pure rosters if tournament rules allow for it and they think that would make them more competitive?

now that you put it like that (FCD-Pink) it all makes sence !!  clown clown
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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by soccerdadrandy on 2/20/2014, 1:36 pm

dd1 wrote:This is DC we're talking about. So what I said above is quite legal, for DC.
and
It does not matter how is that team called. It can be U-12 PA or U-13 PA or FCD-Pink. What matters is that all players are eligible to play in U-13 tournament.  And they/FCD achieved this by combining U-12PA and U-13PA players that have eligible birth dates. You can do this stuff with PA teams (after all PA players can be dual-roistered and play classic as well). What really surprises me is why is this so difficult to understand, and why would this be cheating? After all it is cub that competes and they want to bring their best players, for given age group. Do you think that overseas teams, for example, when they come over would not add few Aug-Dec 00 born players to their 01-pure rosters if tournament rules allow for it and they think that would make them more competitive?

dd1- i think the people calling foul assume that if a player is involved in PA that they should be disqualified from playing with the "rig-raft" lol J/K but there seems to be an assumption that the child should do one or the other. i however am for assembling the strongest legal team possible. thanks for your attempt to clarify things. the rules do indicate once a player goes up to DA that this dual rostering will not be allowed  bounce bounce 
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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by twotone on 2/20/2014, 1:38 pm

It's not the rest of the world that's creating confusion with the age groups. the rest of the world (including USSF) goes by the calendar year age groups, January-December. it's was FIFA uses for all it's youth divisions.

US Youth Soccer has chosen to go by the Aug-July birth year for some reason (following the school year) and it causes confusion. If a Argentine team travels to a tournament in Germany and says it's taking a 99 age group team, it literally means all players were born between January 1, 1999 and December 31, 1999 (unless a younger kid is playing up). If an Argentine team travels to a tournament in the USA under USYS rules, then they'll have to play up into the U15 age group with younger players.

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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by soccerdadrandy on 2/20/2014, 1:45 pm

twotone wrote:It's not the rest of the world that's creating confusion with the age groups. the rest of the world (including USSF) goes by the calendar year age groups, January-December. it's was FIFA uses for all it's youth divisions.

US Youth Soccer has chosen to go by the Aug-July birth year for some reason (following the school year) and it causes confusion. If a Argentine team travels to a tournament in Germany and says it's taking a 99 age group team, it literally means all players were born between January 1, 1999 and December 31, 1999 (unless a younger kid is playing up). If an Argentine team travels to a tournament in the USA under USYS rules, then they'll have to play up into the U15 age group with younger players.

or they can replace older 99 kids with 5 younger guest players and play in true USA age bracket. one of the issues with home town teams in any tournament is that USUALLY a club is not so greedy as to leave off 5 team mates for 5 better guest players. you can bet if a foreign team is coming in, they leave the weakest behind bounce bounce 
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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by Laroja_2012 on 2/20/2014, 2:24 pm

FC Dallas is using the right approach to bring their PA players to the DC. A true PA team needs to play up in a regular tournament and as seen with DT and Solar PA teams at the DT Fall/Winter tournament, the PA teams can't really compete against "partially" older teams. So the idea of mixing players from different teams and get them into the DC by winning qualifying tournament sounds the best solution. However I do not get how the FC Dallas U12 got into DC as they did lose to Tigres in the Bobby Rhine tourney.

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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by murito on 2/20/2014, 2:35 pm

Laroja_2012 wrote:FC Dallas is using the right approach to bring their PA players to the DC. A true PA team needs to play up in a regular tournament and as seen with DT and Solar PA teams at the DT Fall/Winter tournament, the PA teams can't really compete against "partially" older teams. So the idea of mixing players from different teams and get them into the DC by winning qualifying tournament sounds the best solution. However I do not get how the FC Dallas U12 got into DC as they did lose to Tigres in the Bobby Rhine tourney.

Is like dd1 said !! WHO CARES if the FCD -Won or if FCD-Lost or if FCD-PINK the only thing that CARES is that FCD-IN – ok!!!!?

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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by BBB on 2/20/2014, 2:46 pm

Now that is a good question, isn't it? I don't know, but I'll take a guess....

I think that because U-13 PA would make it as 2nd alternate in U-14 brackets (according to the rules) they probably got agreement from DC organizers to move their bye/spot to U-13. It is better for FC this way, as it would be lot harder for them to compete in U-14 bracket. It is better for DTR 00s as well as that pushed them in and it sucks for 01 team that was supposed to be 4th in U-13 tournament.
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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by murito on 2/20/2014, 2:51 pm

dd1 wrote:Now that is a good question, isn't it? I don't know, but I'll take a guess....

I think that because U-13 PA would make it as 2nd alternate in U-14 brackets (according to the rules) they probably got agreement from DC organizers to move their bye/spot to U-13. It is better for FC this way, as it would be lot harder for them to compete in U-14 bracket. It is better for DTR 00s as well as that pushed them in and it sucks for 01 team that was supposed to be 4th in U-13 tournament.

dd1 wrote:
... and why would this be cheating?

 Shocked

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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by BBB on 2/20/2014, 2:56 pm

Murito you have a point, but I was talking in the contexts of moving players around, and not how the tournament spots are awarded, which I admit is not 100% clear for U-13 age group, at least not to me.
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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by go99 on 2/20/2014, 4:17 pm

I thought it was

1. 1st place academy league

Qualifying tornaments and then alternates

1st alternate 2nd place in CL
2nd alternate 1st place PA team
3rd alternate 3rd place CL teams etc
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Re: So who made Dallas Cup?

Post by Futbol_Sala on 2/21/2014, 5:32 am

This is the confusion caused by clear and simple wording acing essentially....guessing!
This is what I know to be fact:
Scenario 1.
U12PA= Players born Jan 1 2000 - Dec 31, 2000
They would have to play in the U13 Division
This would not be advantageous for FC -D PA

U13PA=Players born Jan 1 2000 - Dec 31, 2001
They would have to play in the U13 Division
If this is the case then this could turn into a massacre as they face what we in the states call
Jan 1, 1999 - December 31st 1999. While other teams can carry younger players but nobody in their right mind would carry a squad younger that 6 months of their birth year into international competition.

When we faced FC-D PA in Bobby Rhine this was the case. Sure they had what we call 01s but a good portion was what we call 00. How do I know this? Because my kid played PA! So there you go.
This is also the reason why a PA team must play up (see DC Rules). This is nothing more than code speak for "now your going to play vs players your same age." It sounds much easier and palatable to say U12PA or U13PA. IMHO they stand a better chance in U12 than in U13.

This is also the reason the other invites are pulling their 00 as close to January 1, 2000 and guest playing them in our case the U13division. It can be confusing and infuriating especially if your a domestic team playing older kids but the DC evens things out and forces them into their proper division. Not to pick on the PA teams in the context of domestic play but I digress to my prior comment of PA teams sandbagging the lower divisions and calling them wins. Initially you set them up to win by using the Rules but You set them up for failure when the rules are set up against the very thing you used to qualify. Is every U13PA player a U12 or U13? It depends on which rule book you go by. You must suspend the long held belief that they go by the August 1st birth date which to me is a much more fair way of doing things than the January 1 international birthdate.

To give yourself the best chances for a win just stack your team with Jan-May 2000 of your best players. No need to go hunting for further odds. How do I know this? Because my kid played PA!


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