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Is the smart money in D3?

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Re: Is the smart money in D3?

Post by Real Barcelona on 7/29/2014, 11:36 am

My kids have played all the way from recreational to PPL/ APL to D2 and DI/academy and I can tell you that I do see a significant difference in the level of competition, skill level, physical play and speed of play. The intensity goes up and so does the flow of the game. Do teams get gems from lower level divisions SURE. But not all kids adapt well and some end up moving back to divisions with a slower paced game.

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Re: Is the smart money in D3?

Post by Laroja_2012 on 7/29/2014, 11:39 am

I agree with Ibystander. By personal experience with my son, the main difference between a D3 and a D1 team is the pace of the game, the speed in passing, andthe decision making abilities of the players. I am sure there is talent in D3, but overall D3 teams can't compete again D1 teams. Plus in the big clubs, players try to move up and before or later the more advanced players end up in the top teams. As players mature differently, it does not mean that a great player can't come out from a D3 team at age 15. But it's more of a rarity.

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Re: Is the smart money in D3?

Post by wembleys on 7/29/2014, 11:53 am

I have noticed that D1 teams always enjoy playing versus D3 or REC teams. With these teams the D1's boys have more time to show and practice their PERSONAL skills. While playing versus another D1 team they do not have the luxury of time, so they need to make faster decisions and KISS (Keep It Simple Sucker) so not to complicate and be sent to the bench.

If your bb need to develop personal skill, D3 or D2 is the place to do it ! This is why we have D3 brackets, and for CL to make more money, but that’s a different topic!!
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Re: Is the smart money in D3?

Post by Enjoy life now! on 7/29/2014, 12:12 pm

soccerisgood123 wrote:
Enjoy life now! wrote:
soccerisgood123 wrote:Parents believe whatever makes them feel better and that's ok!

yep like parents whose kid is on a independent d3 team but thinks they are better than d1 players.. Razz Razz 

Big clubs are not the answer for everyone! Sorry but if that jab was for me, you are way off...

it was for you and it was right on the money. but you are right big clubs are not for everyone

Nice try though!  cheers 

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Re: Is the smart money in D3?

Post by Enjoy life now! on 7/29/2014, 12:18 pm

PA/DA best suited for January to March birthdays
D1 best suited for August to October birthdays

I'd say their is a little talent at each level & there is an abundance of average players filling in at all levels.

Independents usually attract local, raw talent but it's difficult for them to advance levels due to recruiting ability.

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Re: Is the smart money in D3?

Post by Laroja_2012 on 7/29/2014, 12:27 pm

Enjoy life now! wrote:PA/DA best suited for January to March birthdays
D1 best suited for August to October birthdays

I disagree! My son was born in March and that's why we keep him in D1 instead of moving him to PA/DA: he is more challenged where he is now! Mostly if a kid has an early growth spurt, he needs to be competing against older kids instead of younger ones. Unless what you want is to be gratified as a parent and see your kid physically dominate the other kids. If you want your kid to develop, he needs to be challenged!

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Re: Is the smart money in D3?

Post by Laroja_2012 on 7/29/2014, 12:33 pm

at the end of the day, the smart money is where your kid is playing at the top of his own level, has enough playing time, is improving and mostly he is having fun! it does not matter to be in PA/DA or D1 or D3 or PPL. And as parents we should always be proud of his achievements!

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Re: Is the smart money in D3?

Post by Guest on 7/29/2014, 12:53 pm

I'd say their is a little talent at each level & there is an abundance of average players filling in at all levels.

to be fair there are kids playing d1 who probably should be playing d2 and several kids in d2 who could play in d1. there are some in d3 but few and far between...

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Re: Is the smart money in D3?

Post by soccerdadrandy on 7/29/2014, 1:04 pm

Ibystander wrote:
Futbol_Sala wrote:All,
Your opinions please!
More often than not I've heard over and over that the smart money is in D3.  Has anybody else heard this?  I did watch a few tournaments before making my own decision and in my own eyes D3 is more competitive.  I won't ever field D2 questions or comments.  However, is it in fact a real fact that D3 is packed with talent and D1 now not really what it use to be.  Take a peek at recent D3 vs D1 teams and I'm forced to agree.  D1 for the money does not warrant the cost.  Will it remain that way?  Probably not but for now I'm sold that D3 is where the talent is.  Please be insightful and with relevant citations before you comment.
You're very brave in making this assessment.  I'll try to be civil and not rip your head off, so here goes.  As we don't play in D3, I can't really comment on the talent that is there, but I can say that my BBs played in many tournaments, and that whenever they play a D2 or D3 team, we usually see a huge difference, mainly in pace of play.
Perhaps people get the notion that D3 has more talent because most of the teams are on a level playing ground and that the kids can  actually play and keep their positions longer because they have TIME.  When you play D1 teams, the players tend to play a little faster and not allow you to have all day to move the ball.  I've seen this over and over again. Coaches also allow players to play different positions because they know that there is minimal threat when they play D2/D3 teams.  I do agree that there is also talent in D2 and D3, but in no way are there more there than in D1.  Don't know what age group your son plays in, but if you're interested in scrimmaging an 03 D1 team, PM me.  Coach is always looking for challenging scrimmages.

now that is how you have a civil discussion Smile great points
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Re: Is the smart money in D3?

Post by soccerdadrandy on 7/29/2014, 1:07 pm

Laroja_2012 wrote:at the end of the day, the smart money is where your kid is playing at the top of his own level, has enough playing time, is improving and mostly he is having fun! it does not matter to be in PA/DA or D1 or D3 or PPL. And as parents we should always be proud of his achievements!

TRUE DAT! as my son would say Smile
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Re: Is the smart money in D3?

Post by The German on 7/29/2014, 1:51 pm

soccerdadrandy wrote:
Laroja_2012 wrote:at the end of the day, the smart money is where your kid is playing at the top of his own level, has enough playing time, is improving and mostly he is having fun! it does not matter to be in PA/DA or D1 or D3 or PPL. And as parents we should always be proud of his achievements!

TRUE DAT! as my son would say Smile
Laroja is correct, the most important part is for the boys to have fun which can mean different things. My older one plays on a team with his friends from HS and has no ambition to play in a more serious team and has a blast while my younger one is the opposite and wants to play at the highest level possible for him and still has a blast.

I also have to agree with Ibystander that the level of play in D1 is so much faster than D2/D3/PPL/APL leagues. Of course you can find a player on each D3 or even APL/PPL team that could play in D1 to a certain degree but there is a reason they play where they play.

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Re: Is the smart money in D3?

Post by PremierLeagueFan on 7/29/2014, 4:46 pm

The German wrote:
I also have to agree with Ibystander that the level of play in D1 is so much faster than D2/D3/PPL/APL leagues. Of course you can find a player on each D3 or even APL/PPL team that could play in D1 to a certain degree but there is a reason they play where they play.

"I agree with the German"

D1 is fast and furious and it is highly unlikely that a "top 5" team in Division 1 would be seriously challenged by a D2/D3/PPL/APL team regardless of the individual skills or efforts of a few of their Top players who we all realize exist on some of these D2/D3/PPL/APL teams and have the potential to make the jump to a division 1 team.

I saw some D2 teams play last week that have great talent with multiple players who could easily make a D1 team, but that is not enough to get a winning result against a "top 5" team. I think the D1 level BB's on D2 teams are probably getting more playing time and development and will help their teams promote, but not to the level of knocking off the "top 5" of D1.

D1 teams have a different pace and have to grind out wins which makes their strong players stronger, but it's tough on some of the D1 developing players and they can sometimes get overwhelmed by the constant pressure to win that is the "Hallmark" of D1.

D1 coaches scout players in D1 and D2 just so they have options if a D1 player burns out or loses interest which is why D2 is so dynamic from a players perspective and why parents should never underestimate the value of having a BB that is a contributing player on a D2 team.

The burnout problem from D1 is hotly debated (constantly) and is why it makes good sense for many players to stay where they are and continue to be happy developing and playing to their potential until they decide that they are ready and "want" to make the jump to a higher division or league.

Lots of talk about D1 being less about development and more about performance and that is probably an accurate representation, but you can't have it both ways so it is also fair to expect that the D1 teams should rule the roost in results against all others and the way D1 is set up makes it possible for any D1 team to be beaten by another D1 team if they make too many mistakes on any given day.
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Re: Is the smart money in D3?

Post by Guest on 7/29/2014, 5:20 pm

PremierLeagueFan wrote:
The German wrote:
I also have to agree with Ibystander that the level of play in D1 is so much faster than D2/D3/PPL/APL leagues. Of course you can find a player on each D3 or even APL/PPL team that could play in D1 to a certain degree but there is a reason they play where they play.

"I agree with the German"

D1 is fast and furious and it is highly unlikely that a "top 5" team in Division 1 would be seriously challenged by a D2/D3/PPL/APL team regardless of the individual skills or efforts of a few of their Top players who we all realize exist on some of these D2/D3/PPL/APL teams and have the potential to make the jump to a division 1 team.

I saw some D2 teams play last week that have great talent with multiple players who could easily make a D1 team, but that is not enough to get a winning result against a "top 5" team. I think the D1 level BB's on D2 teams are probably getting more playing time and development and will help their teams promote, but not to the level of knocking off the "top 5" of D1.

D1 teams have a different pace and have to grind out wins which makes their strong players stronger, but it's tough on some of the D1 developing players and they can sometimes get overwhelmed by the constant pressure to win that is the "Hallmark" of D1.

D1 coaches scout players in D1 and D2 just so they have options if a D1 player burns out or loses interest which is why D2 is so dynamic from a players perspective and why parents should never underestimate the value of having a BB that is a contributing player on a D2 team.

The burnout problem from D1 is hotly debated (constantly) and is why it makes good sense for many players to stay where they are and continue to be happy developing and playing to their potential until they decide that they are ready and "want" to make the jump to a higher division or league.

Lots of talk about D1 being less about development and more about performance and that is probably an accurate representation, but you can't have it both ways so it is also fair to expect that the D1 teams should rule the roost in results against all others and the way D1 is set up makes it possible for any D1 team to be beaten by another D1 team if they make too many mistakes on any given day.


 cheers cheers cheers 

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Re: Is the smart money in D3?

Post by DarkHorse on 7/29/2014, 6:34 pm

Best logical and informative answer to the debate I have read. Thank you PLF

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Re: Is the smart money in D3?

Post by crazyET on 8/8/2014, 11:35 am

Sala, since you seem to think your point has been proven by a singular example from some random unspecified tournament at Railroad, how about this for an example?  In the Ken Smith Memorial Day Tournament from May, the top team in '99 DIII, Deportivo Alacranes, lost 6-1  affraid to FCDallas Lopez, the top team from DII (just moved up to DI).  Then, Deportivo managed a tie against Xpress 99 (?????) from Wichita Falls. The top team from DIII finished with 5 points in dead last in their bracket.  I'm sure if we dig hard enough, we can find many more examples.  

Or, since we are in the 01 forum, how about an example from that age group. In the same Ken Smith Tournament, the top team from DIII '01, FC Nationals Chivas de Guadalajara lost 4-1 to Wizards (2nd place finisher in DI) and 5-3 to FCD Youth (8th place in DI), before salvaging a tie to Adromeda FC Shabout (8th place in DII). Again, the top team from DIII finished dead last in their bracket and failed to advance.

The point is single game (or even multiple game) results mean NOTHING. They are kids and some days they play above their heads and others they play right at the level one might expect.
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Re: Is the smart money in D3?

Post by Real Barcelona on 8/8/2014, 3:23 pm

It was too hot on that weekend for the D3 teams!Perhaps they might do better in the middle of the winter?

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Re: Is the smart money in D3?

Post by Guest on 8/8/2014, 3:56 pm

crazyET wrote:Sala, since you seem to think your point has been proven by a singular example from some random unspecified tournament at Railroad, how about this for an example?  In the Ken Smith Memorial Day Tournament from May, the top team in '99 DIII, Deportivo Alacranes, lost 6-1  affraid to FCDallas Lopez, the top team from DII (just moved up to DI).  Then, Deportivo managed a tie against Xpress 99 (?????) from Wichita Falls. The top team from DIII finished with 5 points in dead last in their bracket.  I'm sure if we dig hard enough, we can find many more examples.  

Or, since we are in the 01 forum, how about an example from that age group.  In the same Ken Smith Tournament, the top team from DIII '01, FC Nationals Chivas de Guadalajara lost 4-1 to Wizards (2nd place finisher in DI) and 5-3 to FCD Youth (8th place in DI), before salvaging a tie to Adromeda FC Shabout (8th place in DII).  Again, the top team from DIII finished dead last in their bracket and failed to advance.

The point is single game (or even multiple game) results mean NOTHING.  They are kids and some days they play above their heads and others they play right at the level one might expect.

touche, well done. the whole premise is a joke...

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Re: Is the smart money in D3?

Post by wembleys on 8/8/2014, 5:11 pm

D1 is looking for a scrimmage. PLEASE NO D3 teams; no offense but we are not at their top level.
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Re: Is the smart money in D3?

Post by DarkHorse on 8/8/2014, 6:58 pm

wembleys wrote:D1 is looking for a scrimmage. PLEASE NO D3 teams; no offense but we are not at their top level.
I agree that Div1 has the best teams/players, but that was a doushbag thing to say. D3 is doing the best they can with what the have and as an outsider I'm hoping they continue to play no matter what the early results are. You are the ipitamy of a parent living thru there child playing a game for kids. Hope you are happy about this post!

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Re: Is the smart money in D3?

Post by wembleys on 8/8/2014, 7:22 pm

Hahaha you know this is a joke; Sorry if I offended you.
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Re: Is the smart money in D3?

Post by DarkHorse on 8/8/2014, 7:46 pm

wembleys wrote:Hahaha you know this is a joke; Sorry if I offended you.
Yes I knew it was a joke. But still to think it and then post it is a tool thing to do. More surprised I am only one to call you out on it.

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Re: Is the smart money in D3?

Post by Guest on 8/8/2014, 8:17 pm

DarkHorse wrote:
wembleys wrote:Hahaha you know this is a joke; Sorry if I offended you.
Yes I knew it was a joke. But still to think it and then post it is a tool thing to do. More surprised I am only one to call you out on it.

sorry dont think so, given the shrillness of the OP. pretty funny actually..comedy always offends somebody...

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Re: Is the smart money in D3?

Post by soccer? on 8/12/2014, 9:51 am

PremierLeagueFan wrote:
The German wrote:
I also have to agree with Ibystander that the level of play in D1 is so much faster than D2/D3/PPL/APL leagues. Of course you can find a player on each D3 or even APL/PPL team that could play in D1 to a certain degree but there is a reason they play where they play.

"I agree with the German"

D1 is fast and furious and it is highly unlikely that a "top 5" team in Division 1 would be seriously challenged by a D2/D3/PPL/APL team regardless of the individual skills or efforts of a few of their Top players who we all realize exist on some of these D2/D3/PPL/APL teams and have the potential to make the jump to a division 1 team.

I saw some D2 teams play last week that have great talent with multiple players who could easily make a D1 team, but that is not enough to get a winning result against a "top 5" team. I think the D1 level BB's on D2 teams are probably getting more playing time and development and will help their teams promote, but not to the level of knocking off the "top 5" of D1.

D1 teams have a different pace and have to grind out wins which makes their strong players stronger, but it's tough on some of the D1 developing players and they can sometimes get overwhelmed by the constant pressure to win that is the "Hallmark" of D1.

D1 coaches scout players in D1 and D2 just so they have options if a D1 player burns out or loses interest which is why D2 is so dynamic from a players perspective and why parents should never underestimate the value of having a BB that is a contributing player on a D2 team.

The burnout problem from D1 is hotly debated (constantly) and is why it makes good sense for many players to stay where they are and continue to be happy developing and playing to their potential until they decide that they are ready and "want" to make the jump to a higher division or league.

Lots of talk about D1 being less about development and more about performance and that is probably an accurate representation, but you can't have it both ways so it is also fair to expect that the D1 teams should rule the roost in results against all others and the way D1 is set up makes it possible for any D1 team to be beaten by another D1 team if they make too many mistakes on any given day.

I think this is exactly correct, but a lot also depends on the team. Before my son's D1 team split a couple of years ago (some to PA, a couple to other clubs), he loved it and really enjoyed being around his teammates -- those boys always wanted to hang out, go out to eat after games, etc. And they always played as a team. Then he went to the "other" D1 team in his club and hated it -- primarily because several of the other boys were not good teammates. He finally decided he just didn't want to deal with it any more and now is playing for a lower-level "good" team. Are there a couple of kids on that team (in addition to mine) that could play at the D1 level? Yes. But the vast majority could not -- they don't have the speed, touch, or decision-making to do it. The only way they could stay close would be to pack everyone back on defense, play kickball, and hope for a breakaway counter goal. And that's what some of the lower-level clubs do against D1 teams. So a score of 2-0 or even 2-1 could be very misleading, as the D1 team likely possessed the ball for the vast majority of the game -- I've seen it happen many times.

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