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Which playing style is better

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Which playing style is better

Post by soccer_p on 9/15/2015, 10:31 am

Hi all,

I watched two 02B league games last weekend.

PPL D1, Chelsea 03B played beautiful passing game and beat an 02 team 11 : 0

Classic D1, LFC 02B elite, played hard but lost 2 : 3

2 great teams, but appear to play different styles.

Chelsea played a mostly short passing style. LFC used lot of long passes to their strikers

If you know these 2 teams, is the Chelsea 03B playing style better than the LFC 02B elite playing style?

Thanks

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Re: Which playing style is better

Post by letsgo on 9/15/2015, 10:58 am

How are you going to compare a PPL D1 team to a D1 classic league team? Obviously both teams are going to have different styles. One plays against opponents that are said to be at a "higher" level while the other one plays teams that are said to be at a "recreational" level. Don't want to bust your bubble. I see what you're trying to do here Laughing

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Re: Which playing style is better

Post by PremierLeagueFan on 9/15/2015, 11:29 am

soccer_p wrote:Hi all,

I watched two 02B league games last weekend.

PPL D1, Chelsea 03B played beautiful passing game and beat an 02 team 11 : 0

Classic D1, LFC 02B elite, played hard but lost 2 : 3

2 great teams, but appear to play different styles.

Chelsea played a mostly short passing style. LFC used lot of long passes to their strikers

If you know these 2 teams, is the Chelsea 03B playing style better than the LFC 02B elite playing style?

Thanks
In PPL D1 you can play pretty soccer and you can look extremely technical, but in CL you need skill and that is why pretty soccer in PPL is pretty ugly soccer in CL D3 and gets better in D2 and finally pops back up in D1 as the teams choose a direct or possession or even a mixed style of play.

YouTube is full of awesome videos of technically brilliant play without even a hint of pressure from the opposing side so don't get too comfortable with the idea until you have to play under pressure.

If you think I am kidding then enroll in a competitive tournament this Fall with CL teams and learn the hard way that skill is technique under pressure. cheers

The awesome team with great skill that is winning big in 02B PPL is the number 1 03B team from Division 1 of Classic League and the State Champion
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Re: Which playing style is better

Post by Forthegame4 on 9/15/2015, 4:23 pm

I am guessing you are talking about the old 03 Castro super team that is no longer due to PA? (I told the parents that would happen a year ago, just like it did to 02 DTS, but the parents wouldn't listen, but I digress). They are in PPL now, not sure why, but now Castro has this team and Solar Gold in Classic D1. Here is what I would offer, both "styles" have pro's and con's. Both have been successful over the years (both Castro and Fagen were ranked #1 in the Nation last year with their teams). Head to Head LP Elite has the edge with a 3-1 win (though a little unfair due to the year age difference). Both styles will work, but not singularly over time (and many agree, self included the long ball only style of play loses success rate more quickly as players age/develop). Meaning incorporation of both styles is needed to be successful long term. Look through the history books and you will find over reliance on any one style only has short term dividends. If you can play the short passing game and occasionally add a long ball to catch the backs off guard...that's probably best.

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Re: Which playing style is better

Post by Number13 on 9/15/2015, 6:38 pm

Forthegame4 wrote:I am guessing you are talking about the old 03 Castro super team that is no longer due to PA? (I told the parents that would happen a year ago, just like it did to 02 DTS, but the parents wouldn't listen, but I digress).  They are in PPL now, not sure why, but now Castro has this team and Solar Gold in Classic D1.    

I guess they are "no longer".   If they are playing in PA with a couple additions/subtractions, have they disappeared?   The group has stuck together a lot better than DTS 02 did at U13, when the best kids left and the remainder was a shell of its past.   But then they didn't give Sal the PA team. Either way, last year's Castro is gone from CL, poof, onto bigger and better things and largely intact.  

I guess one of those bigger better things is U14 PPL.  One would assume he has the PA 03 soccer age kids registered in a NTX league so they can play in State Cup or something.  Which seems like a lot of non-competitive soccer games to play in just for a weekend in May.   But to each his own.  

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Re: Which playing style is better

Post by go99 on 9/16/2015, 3:51 am

You can thank CL for stealing his spot. Otherwise they would have stayed and won D1 again.
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Re: Which playing style is better

Post by Number13 on 9/16/2015, 8:00 am

go99 wrote:You can thank CL for stealing his spot. Otherwise they would have stayed and won D1 again.

The day I thank CL for anything, the Malebranche will be iceskating along the Bolgia.  But whatever.   In the end, would rather play against the better kids.   Ifs and buts.  

As CL holds the right to refuse service to anyone at the sole and unfettered discretion of CL, its hard to argue that they can't do whatever they want.    They can take your bye, they can take your money and drop games, they can tell you the season starts after Labor Day and then schedule games before Labor Day, etc.   Nobody has to like it, but I think everybody knows it, so complaints about any of it are just tears in the rain.    Don't know specifically what happened, but feel free to explain in detail how the Texans bye was stolen and given to the Texans.   All I know is we have Woodberry's team who is probably not as good as Castro's team.  

Either way, don't think I'd go through the trouble of PPL just to do State Cup/Regionals or get in some games.  But people have varying levels of ambition.  Their people largely seem like nice folks, best of luck to them.
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Re: Which playing style is better

Post by go99 on 9/16/2015, 8:05 am

well if you have your 75% you are supposed to be able to keep your bye when you leave a club. Unless CL decides they don't want to follow that rule. Like you said they can do whatever they want. Right up until and expanded DA drops to U11/12 and then many can choose to not participate in their BS. If castro can win state and go to regionals then its worth it.
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Re: Which playing style is better

Post by finish1 on 9/16/2015, 8:25 am

GO, I've been preaching for years that CL is stuck in the past and refuses to evolve. The first chip in their armor was the advent of PA. It started on the girls side, then jumped to the boys.

I agree that when DA drops to U12, CL will be the new PPL/APL.

And, say goodbye to that ridiculous CL rule that doesn't allow U10 to play up into U11. There will be no age restrictions for DA U12. If your 6 year old can compete, they can play. LOL!
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Re: Which playing style is better

Post by Number13 on 9/16/2015, 8:35 am

You also have to apply for the bye under the 75% exception.  By a fairly early deadline.  I don't know if that is what happened, but any talk about Castro coming back to CL (and lawyering up by Hassan) was well after that deadline.   CL loves them a deadline.   Perhaps Hassan followed the letter of the rules, Castro the spirit.   But I don't know.   Certainly I know that CL has 0.0 for your spirit, and will laugh at your plight and charge you a $200 appeal fee at the same time.   But either way, the rule is "no shoes no shirt no dice" so learn it, know it, live it.  

Perhaps CL will become a relic.   Certainly people can choose now not to participate in it.   Its the only thing we know, and its not great, not terrible.    It just is.   The PA/DA folks leave it already at later ages, in the same numbers, and it still trudges on.   There are a shockingly large # of folks out there that will scramble for places in it if they are freed up.    The only thing there is not a huge shortage of in NTX soccer is ambition.
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Re: Which playing style is better

Post by go99 on 9/16/2015, 8:45 am

Even with the rule there were shenanigans that took place on CL part. CL is not good and its not horrible it is just an entity that survives because of a lack of a viable option. Either way the Castro group will be fine and CL will move on and the 03's will crown a new champ with an asterisk. Would have been nice to see if they could hold the crown or if someone could take it from them
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Re: Which playing style is better

Post by Rightback on 9/16/2015, 9:01 am

There is no 'better' playing style per se...the athletes should learn to play multiple styles etc. However, kicking the ball over the top is not so much a style as a technique for winning youth games...and will generally not produce a 'complete player' who will have skills that endure during more advanced play as they age. That is the real issue...coaches feel pressure to win matches (understandable) and they will ditch your less developed kids for more developed ones as they age (also understandable). A weird system...one that i hope is changing...

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Re: Which playing style is better

Post by finish1 on 9/16/2015, 9:52 am

Regarding playing style, that can be predicted based on your team's formation. If they are paying 11v11 and run a 4-5-1, chances are the team will rely on a big, fast forward. The 4-4-2 usually attacks from the outside, which requires more passing. The 4-3-3 is a very technical formation and uses a lot of passes with a opened up attack.

On the topic of CL, I agree they will not lack from paying customers. Neither will PPL or APL. What CL loses is the distinction of being the top league in the area. Once they fall from that spot, who's to say that won't drop another notch or two in terms of relevance.

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Re: Which playing style is better

Post by PremierLeagueFan on 9/16/2015, 10:11 am

go99 wrote:Even with the rule there were shenanigans that took place on CL part. CL is not good and its not horrible it is just an entity that survives because of a lack of a viable option. Either way the Castro group will be fine and CL will move on and the 03's will crown a new champ with an asterisk. Would have been nice to see if they could hold the crown or if someone could take it from them

I Wonder if Castro 03B PA can play in tournaments as 03B now that they are in PPL 02B?

If it's possible then that would be a huge draw for 03B teams who actually want to compete against them and who also realize that this year's top 03B team gets an asterisk if they can't beat Castro PPL in a competition.
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Re: Which playing style is better

Post by Number13 on 9/16/2015, 10:20 am

finish1 wrote:Regarding playing style, that can be predicted based on your team's formation. If they are paying 11v11 and run a 4-5-1, chances are the team will rely on a big, fast forward. The 4-4-2 usually attacks from the outside, which requires more passing. The 4-3-3 is a very technical formation and uses a lot of passes with a opened up attack.


I would say its more a function of the opponent.   BB's team runs a 4-2-3-1 in theory.   Sometimes the middle triangle inverts and its 4-1-4-1.   When they are struggling its at best a 4-5-1 with a very isolated striker.   Or maybe a 9-1.   When they get in a flow, its looks a lot like a 4-3-3.   Playing style changes based on how easy things are.  

When they are killing somebody, or playing indoors,  it looks like a great short passing team.  When the other team is winning possession, it might look a lot like hoofing out of the back and a lot of aggression and hustle.   Sometimes the other team is sitting back with 9 behind the ball at all times, and then maybe it looks like a lot of short passing, but little incisiveness.   The tendency to change style to something more ugly if its competitive seems the case for almost all 03 teams (save Ayses Gold), including the dear departed.   Which gets back to the winning thing.   I guess some teams are never killing anybody so they only look like hoofers.

As far as Castro:  PA registers under US Club.  They have a U14 US club roster, which is who played in PLD.  The PA team. PPL is under USYS.   They have a U13 USYS (i.e. NTX) roster, which has to exclude the older PA kid(s).   So they could do either in a tourney, just wouldn't be 100% the same kids.
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Re: Which playing style is better

Post by Arsenal1984 on 9/16/2015, 11:02 am

Rightback wrote:There is no 'better' playing style per se...the athletes should learn to play multiple styles etc. However, kicking the ball over the top is not so much a style as a technique for winning youth games...and will generally not produce a 'complete player' who will have skills that endure during more advanced play as they age. That is the real issue...coaches feel pressure to win matches (understandable) and they will ditch your less developed kids for more developed ones as they age (also understandable). A weird system...one that i hope is changing...

I agree - players will need to learn multiple styles of play to best suit their opponent. It really boils down to (your) Team's ability and Soccer IQ --> how do you best emphasize your Strengths and exploit the other teams Weaknesses? But .... you have to ask yourself as a Coach - are you more interested in the WIN or do you want to see Development at the risk of a couple poor results? $$$ talks unfortunately
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Re: Which playing style is better

Post by finish1 on 9/16/2015, 2:08 pm

13, you're playing variations of the 4-5-1, running a single striker. I have never been a fan of that style because it promotes the long ball. I'll take a diamond in the middle over a triangle any day.

Arsenal, player development and winning aren't mutually exclusive and players develop at different rates. Some show great signs of athletic ability early while others mature at later ages.

IMO, the best playing style is small sided games using diamonds and triangles at early, pre-pubescent ages, then introducing more advanced formations for early teens on larger fields.

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Re: Which playing style is better

Post by Arsenal1984 on 9/16/2015, 2:49 pm

That's my point - player development doesn't happen all at once and player mature/grow/"develop" at different rates (U13 is usually the biggest size discrepancy). $$$ tends to blind some Teams into a "less attractive" style of play in order to maintain "top status" in the Club world.

I agree - small sided games, diamonds/triangles, and understanding how to move-off-the-ball to help your teammates is something that needs to be ingrained in the younger kids before age 12/13/14.

It ALL depends on your player personnel, but I prefer the 5-3-2 that flexes to a 3-5-2 when we have possession of the ball. Roberto Carlos/Cafu-"like" wing backs who can track back and defend + provide width and an outlet in the attack. 3 midfielder rotate in a Triangle with a more holding mid, box-to-box mid, and an attacking mid .... but these players are smart enough to be interchangeable when defending
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Re: Which playing style is better

Post by finish1 on 9/16/2015, 2:59 pm

Yes, the 3-5-2. The last time I saw that formation ran successfully at the youth level was the Dallas Cup several years ago by LAFC U13 Red and Black. Both teams ran the same formation and both made the Final. It requires a very solid CB and very athletic outside wingers. Hats off to you if this is what you're trying to run.

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Re: Which playing style is better

Post by Arsenal1984 on 9/16/2015, 3:10 pm

I would like to see Jurgen give it a go ..... 3 CB's (Alvarado, Brooks, Besler) and Yedlin flanking on the right and Fabian Johnson flanking on the left --> both these players don't fit the stereotypical role of LB/RB, but they have played their before. Both players are very athletic, pacey, and direct in attack

3 CM's --> give a holding mid, box-to-box, and attacking mid/creative role (throw Bradley in the mix on one of those positions)

2 strikers --> give me a large target striker and a speedy scrapper who plays underneath him (Niall Quinn/Keane, Crouch/Defoe, Rooney/Tevez, etc...)
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Re: Which playing style is better

Post by go99 on 9/16/2015, 4:01 pm

jurgen should just pack it in, defend in numbers, boot it like crazy and run like hell. Make the team aggressive, fast to the ball, high tempo and just make the game ugly. Go into games against the euro glory boys and check their hearts, see how bad they want those games. Are they willing to put those million dollar club contracts on the line. The reality of Jurgen is he can do no better than the garbage he is delt. He doesn't have the tools to compete so stop trying with this group. Play to your strengths. Athleticism, competitiveness, aggression and not as much to lose. Then go back into your youth system and FIRE everyone involved. Build up a system from the ground up, teach whatever view that can be decided is the "american" style
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Re: Which playing style is better

Post by go99 on 9/16/2015, 4:10 pm

oh and I do mean everybody.  Every national team coach, ODP, ID whatever, every trainer, every training center coach and seriously consider gutting the academies.  If a coach has past experience with the national team hire him back...and then fire him
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Re: Which playing style is better

Post by Number13 on 9/16/2015, 4:25 pm

go99 wrote:oh and I do mean everybody.  Every national team coach, ODP, ID whatever, every trainer, every training center coach and seriously consider gutting the academies.  If a coach has past experience with the national team hire him back...and then fire him

Pol Pot says "two thumbs up".
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Re: Which playing style is better

Post by Arsenal1984 on 9/16/2015, 5:33 pm

go99 wrote:jurgen should just pack it in, defend in numbers, boot it like crazy and run like hell.  Make the team aggressive, fast to the ball, high tempo and just make the game ugly.  Go into games against the euro glory boys and check their hearts, see how bad they want those games.  Are they willing to put those million dollar club contracts on the line.  The reality of Jurgen is he can do no better than the garbage he is delt.  He doesn't have the tools to compete so stop trying with this group.  Play to your strengths.  Athleticism, competitiveness, aggression and not as much to lose.  Then go back into your youth system and FIRE everyone involved.  Build up a system from the ground up, teach whatever view that can be decided is the "american" style

This sounds like the AFCON model Razz
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Re: Which playing style is better

Post by finish1 on 9/17/2015, 6:44 am

GO, Klinsman is trying to rebuild the system that is US Soccer. Look at the changes that are taking place today at the youth level. These are decisions that start at the top and are heavily influenced by him.

I believe we are moving in the right direction, but it will take another generation to get there.
It wasn't us and it won't be our kids. It will be their kids.

What we need most is a cultural understanding from the parents of what it takes to groom a successful player. We still have a large majority of parents who never played the game, so they really can't see through the bs and demand something different. The next generation of players will have more history and experience behind them.
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