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AP Consequences

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Re: AP Consequences

Post by debit on 11/19/2015, 12:35 pm

And even these examples that you have presented may be too simple. What about when my fall age kid is in a highly specialized position like GK, but the next older age team in my club has a spring GK that will stay with the team.

What about if my kid was big and fast because he was a Sep birthday playing against a bunch of kids 8 months younger than him, but now he has to compete against kids 6-8 months older than him. Can he even compete on a D1 level anymore or should he step down to D2 or D3 where he can have a realistic shot at playing time.

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Re: AP Consequences

Post by SnookumsConCarne on 11/19/2015, 1:05 pm

CCM wrote:
SoloJonz wrote:Trying not to be too cynical...I think the decision will be made by what increases $$ to the most influential...

No doubt about that.

So in this scenario...  I'm going to use my son't LFC team as an example.  We're a D1 02' team... The LFC 01' team is D2.

1:  All D1 Fall 01's would be combined (somehow) with the D2 Spring 01's and we'd stay in D2 CL.
2:  Same as above except that D1 Fall 01's might be split up amongst other Spring 01 LFC teams regardless of Division (so not only "hosing" the kids by moving to D2, but potentially D3 or not in CL at all).

3:  Same as above for 03's, but giving them the benefit of staying on D1 team since they have (2) D1 teams in both U13 and U14 currently.

4:  Trickle these scenarios to all clubs.

Basically, any Fall players have the real likelihood of being knocked out of their division in CL or in best scenario, they fall to a sister team that is in same.  In my son's case, the best case scenario would be #1 on my list...Relegated to a D2 team.   And of course all of this depends on space available on the merged teams.

Kill me now.

Wow....
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Re: AP Consequences

Post by Madcap on 11/19/2015, 1:31 pm

allen04 wrote:
but if it were the other way, then it would totally suck for the Spring Boys.

Nope; it wouldn't suck for the Spring Boys; because they can CHOOSE to stay and play up.  They would have options in relation to their current team.

The way y'all are suggesting sucks because the older boys don't have the option to stay and can't choose to play down.  This is way more disruptive and IF true just another example of the big clubs bending over the independents.


....Choosing to Play up against boys that will now be over a year older....doesn't sound like much of a choice at all....IMHO

There is a cause and effect to any decision that gets made....it will affect 19 year olds or it will affect 10 year olds...it will affect Fall boys or it will affect Spring boys...either way it sucks for someone...cant make everyone happy.
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Re: AP Consequences

Post by Sprint on 11/19/2015, 1:39 pm

Clearly this will mean change for everyone involved in youth soccer and your team next year won't look the same as it does right now.

The biggest effect will be on the independent teams with one team at a certain age and no teams in the age group above or below them. That could cause some kids to have to leave their clubs and look elsewhere.

Having said that, there will be many teams looking for players at all age groups so plenty of places to play for any kid that wants to play select soccer. Also, a change sometimes sparks a kid and forces him to re-double his efforts to prove himself on a new team. Likewise, a change of coach every two or three years is a good thing for a kids development.

Would be good for US Soccer and Classic league and the powers that be to make a final decision on how it will work so parents and kids can scope out the landscape for next year this Spring.

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Re: AP Consequences

Post by SnookumsConCarne on 11/19/2015, 2:01 pm

Sprint wrote:Clearly this will mean change for everyone involved in youth soccer and your team next year won't look the same as it does right now.  

The biggest effect will be on the independent teams with one team at a certain age and no teams in the age group above or below them.  That could cause some kids to have to leave their clubs and look elsewhere.  

Having said that, there will be many teams looking for players at all age groups so plenty of places to play for any  kid that wants to play select soccer.  Also, a change sometimes sparks a kid and forces him to re-double his efforts to prove himself on a new team.  Likewise, a change of coach every two or three years is a good thing for a kids development.  

Would be good for US Soccer and Classic league and the powers that be to make a final decision on how it will work so parents and kids can scope out the landscape for next year this Spring.  

It's going to doubly suck for South '02 Teams whose players will be '01 next Fall.
Not many D1/D2 Classic League teams over here to choose from.
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Re: AP Consequences

Post by CCM on 11/19/2015, 2:22 pm

Madcap wrote:
allen04 wrote:
but if it were the other way, then it would totally suck for the Spring Boys.

Nope; it wouldn't suck for the Spring Boys; because they can CHOOSE to stay and play up.  They would have options in relation to their current team.

The way y'all are suggesting sucks because the older boys don't have the option to stay and can't choose to play down.  This is way more disruptive and IF true just another example of the big clubs bending over the independents.


....Choosing to Play up against boys that will now be over a year older....doesn't sound like much of a choice at all....IMHO

There is a cause and effect to any decision that gets made....it will affect 19 year olds or it will affect 10 year olds...it will affect Fall boys or it will affect Spring boys...either way it sucks for someone...cant make everyone happy.

Except there is a choice.  Given the other scenario, there is zero choice.  No choice to continue to play with friends and schoolmates that they have grown up playing with.  Now you'll have kids that are in the same class, live on the same street, played together forever split up with no choice.  The other scenario does give them the option and not everyone is playing soccer solely based on where they are positioned within a league.  Friendships, coaches, and relationships have a lot to do with it.  Getting thrown on a team with no one you know, possibly practices a LONG ways away, zero history with and the politics that go along with being the "new kid" may make some just leave the sport altogether.  I may be acting dramatic, but as Snookems said...in some areas, there isn't much of a choice.

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Re: AP Consequences

Post by Preston P on 11/19/2015, 3:29 pm

It's my understanding the rest of the world is calendar year and for whatever reason our age pure leagues are labeled one year behind theirs. I just confirmed the German 2002 calendar year age group is currently U14 and the German 01 calendar year is U15. Once we make the change to Calendar year it makes sense to be in line with the rest of the world.

It doesn't affect international play as kids born in a year will play the same age kids regardless of what their home county calls the league.

I, just like you am waiting to see how this shakes out. This makes the most sense to me because your basing the decison from a global perspective and not on either side of the birth year equation from our current Aug-July year.


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Re: AP Consequences

Post by SnookumsConCarne on 11/19/2015, 3:55 pm

CCM wrote:
Madcap wrote:
allen04 wrote:
but if it were the other way, then it would totally suck for the Spring Boys.

Nope; it wouldn't suck for the Spring Boys; because they can CHOOSE to stay and play up.  They would have options in relation to their current team.

The way y'all are suggesting sucks because the older boys don't have the option to stay and can't choose to play down.  This is way more disruptive and IF true just another example of the big clubs bending over the independents.


....Choosing to Play up against boys that will now be over a year older....doesn't sound like much of a choice at all....IMHO

There is a cause and effect to any decision that gets made....it will affect 19 year olds or it will affect 10 year olds...it will affect Fall boys or it will affect Spring boys...either way it sucks for someone...cant make everyone happy.

Except there is a choice.  Given the other scenario, there is zero choice.  No choice to continue to play with friends and schoolmates that they have grown up playing with.  Now you'll have kids that are in the same class, live on the same street, played together forever split up with no choice.  The other scenario does give them the option and not everyone is playing soccer solely based on where they are positioned within a league.  Friendships, coaches, and relationships have a lot to do with it.  Getting thrown on a team with no one you know, possibly practices a LONG ways away, zero history with and the politics that go along with being the "new kid" may make some just leave the sport altogether.  I may be acting dramatic, but as Snookems said...in some areas, there isn't much of a choice.

Dang it, CCM! It's Snookums! S-N-O-O-K-U-M-S!!!
Oldest BB experienced what you where talking about, when his '98 Pumas went their separate ways and we signed with the Tomahawks.
1. "on a team with no one you know" (yep)
2. "possibly practices a LONG ways away" (yep)
3. "zero history with and the politics that go along with being the "new kid"" (yep and nope: Zero history with these kids. But ZERO politics here).
He and I both wished that we had found this team years ago.
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Re: AP Consequences

Post by PremierLeagueFan on 11/19/2015, 4:19 pm

Calendar year vs school year means two grade levels will share the same team, so basically a 6th grader will be on the same team as 7th grader.

It also means that not every 6th grader amd not every 7th grader will be on the same team so it's an even greater variation that will exist, unlike the current system where one there is a greater likelihood you would be in the same grade, same class, and same team which is more convenient for developing friendships that extend beyond the pitch. This new change is going to be an issue for players who have enjoyed that particular advantage and will be forced to adjust.

No matter what, some age groups are going to be disappointed,  but going forward "Age Pure" will be the new "normal" and older boys in the current system won't keep the advantage they currently have.
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Re: AP Consequences

Post by CCM on 11/19/2015, 5:14 pm

I dunno... A Dec 31 01' doesn't necessarily have any more advantage over an Aug 02' (current system) that a Jan 01' wouldn't have over the Dec 31 01'.

Semantics. The younger kids currently become the older ones and the older ones currently become the younger ones. I don't see "advantage" factoring in at all...That would only be in play if kids can/will play up.

Of course, my head is about to explode thinking this through.

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Re: AP Consequences

Post by LLHowie on 11/19/2015, 5:34 pm

And all of this to find two kids to play on the National Team!!! Smile

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Re: AP Consequences

Post by CCM on 11/19/2015, 6:36 pm

LLHowie wrote:And all of this to find two kids to play on the National Team!!!  Smile

EXACTLY!!!

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Re: AP Consequences

Post by PremierLeagueFan on 11/19/2015, 8:38 pm

I think the school angle is a disadvantage for kids who play local teams and their teammates attend the same school together. In Texas their are lots of players who are able to connect at school for non structured play if they are in the same grade and recess together.
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Re: AP Consequences

Post by winkipop77 on 11/19/2015, 9:44 pm

If the CL bye goes with the Spring birthday kids, then does that mean that all of the Fall birthday kids will not get to play CL their senior year in Highschool?

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Re: AP Consequences

Post by Forthegame4 on 11/20/2015, 6:36 am

This is like watch ESPN college football. Nothing really matters until the game is played (or in the case the final decision is posted).

It is simple: using the 2001 age group: today the birth year of the players are August 00 to July 01. In the new system the birth year will be Jan 01 to Dec 01. It's 12 months either way. I can't change it, I can control how I accept it....as a great opportunity for my four kids to play with new teammates and to compete with other countries on a more even playing field when they travel to Dallas.

For those of us who have transferred to Dallas we have found there is no greater soccer city in the US. This change opens the door even further for us. Only you can choose how to accept this change and the emotional impact it has on your player(s)

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Re: AP Consequences

Post by PremierLeagueFan on 11/20/2015, 9:23 am

Yes, the change is coming for sure, but a majority of players will have to adjust by playing up in age group if they still want to play soccer with their mates. All the discussion, confusion, teeth gnashing is understandable because soccer is not just about winning, it's also about the social relationships and team development.

Not every player is planning on being a pro, but most would like a shot at High School and some even want to play in College. No matter what, players want to be with their soccer friends who they have known since youth academy and this change is going to force them to make choices they were unprepared for.

If you are a little BB in youth academy you will start making friends in the new age based system that will be based on the new rule and won't change by the time you go select so my sympathy is for the older BB's who are going to have to make some hard choices.

My BB knew everyone on his Texans team, but hardly ever hung out with them after school and only had an occasional slumber party, but when we moved to another club he was sad that he couldn't see them every week or in the game on the weekend so I can appreciate the effect it will have on the families who will be making some hard decisions next season.
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Re: AP Consequences

Post by LLHowie on 11/20/2015, 10:12 am

Forthegame4 I see all of your points but to make this change so our kids can play on a more level playing field with kids from other countries doesn't make sense because how often does that occur? Dallas Cup only? Again to me making major changes for something that doesn't really make a positive impactful difference. Making changes that impact the masses to benefit a few.

My son left a team he had been with for several years and it was hard for him to leave the other players. It helped that we were able to move to another team that had boys he already knew to take out some anxiety and make him feel at ease. If these changes occur as we all think, he possibly will have to move again and now move to a team where he won't know anyone because they have been playing a year older (yes I have an August B-Day BB). I have no issues with him now playing with older kids. As my boys have been growing up I have had them play up and it has made them better players. If he decides to play HS soccer, he could play against boys 4 years older.

I think rec/select should be left the way it is, let the kids have fun playing with their friends. For those whose children want to be more serious or are on the path to the National Team, they can create leagues (PA/DA) which are Age Pure and allow them to still find the few kids they want to find. They solve both issues there. If they still really want to push this thing, then start with the youngest Academy age and leave the other ages alone to stay how they are.

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Re: AP Consequences

Post by winkipop77 on 11/20/2015, 11:36 am

Why stop with soccer?  It appears to me that even our whole school system in the U.S. might be jacked up.  Why does the year always begin in the Fall?  Why shouldn't it as well as the soccer year begin in January?  I mean my fiscal year for income tax purposes run January 1st till December 31st, so why not academics and soccer too?

Because I have 5 fingers on my left hand, kids should also start at age 5, so long as they are going to be age 5 at some point during the school year which would now of course start in January under my accelerated plan.   Starting them at age 5 greatly simplifies the calculation for figuring out how old they will be when the graduate.  All kids will be 17 (5 + 12 its easy math see).  Not 18.  If they are 18, what are they doing still in grade school?  And why are they still in my house?  They should be out working!  Not mooching of me.  Why wait till the summer to kick them out?  Lets get them out into the workforce on January 2nd, after they graduate H.S.  Why wait till summer? This would effectively get all of our kids out into the real world up to 8 months sooner, where they would join the work force and pay taxes which would help fund all the various social programs.  Heck, with all this extra tax revenue which my plan would help the government capture, I bet the whole DA thing could be nationalized, eliminating the need for clubs to fund such programs themselves.  No longer would clubs need to raise dues each year on its general population of players and their families just so they can afford to offer such programs to their elite populous for "Free".  No longer would clubs need to hold mandatory fundraisers or whatever which only benefit the few.  Clubs could then afford to pay their coaches more, and maybe even treat them as employees with benefits.  Coaches would then be happier, and not yell at the kids so much, which in turn might prevent the kids from turning into angry adults later in life, some of whom might have regret that they .......oops, there I go again on a tangent.  

Im sure however it ends up, kids will still find a team, and make new friends, and play the sport they love.  No use losing sleep over:)

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Re: AP Consequences

Post by oldschoolsoccer on 11/20/2015, 6:05 pm

I think the best thing for all the boys is to just have Classic League close their doors and for a new league to start next fall. Then every team re-qualifies and everyone is happy.

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Re: AP Consequences

Post by SoloJonz on 11/20/2015, 7:26 pm

That is the smartest thing to do. So many team rosters are going to substantially change. This might even cause parents to select teams based on the coaches qualifications instead of their gotsoccer ranking or CL placement?

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Re: AP Consequences

Post by Soccer27 on 11/20/2015, 8:35 pm

Good idea....old school

Open try outs December-January.
Signing In February

Let's put it to vote

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Re: AP Consequences

Post by SilvaTheGreat on 11/22/2015, 1:32 pm

IMHO is that all leagues at all levels should be reset just like the first year entering classic

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Re: AP Consequences

Post by Uncleof05AP on 11/24/2015, 9:18 am

Out of full disclosure, this "select" soccer world is new to me, and I find it more confusing than a David Lynch movie, especially when y'all start talking about "byes."  After crunching the numbers on my Commodore 64, however, I thought that I had the new landscape figured out.  Now, however, I am not sure, especially when considering the 2005 boys.  If the bye stays with the younger kids, that would mean the kids born in 2005 on a current '05 team (the spring boys) would keep the bye next year as they move to U12.  Under that scenario, the boys born in 2005 currently on '06 teams (the fall boys) would not have to qualify for Classic League.  Instead, they would have to find a team with a bye that needed players (assuming they are skilled enough for the team, etc.).  Generally speaking, I am not necessarily sure that is a bad thing (even though I am constantly told that qualifying for Classic League is a passage to manhood that every child should experience).  What happens, however, if you are a "fall boy" on a current '06 team where the club does not have a 2005 team in Classic League?  Take for instance, Solar.  As I understand it, the '06 Solar (Castro) team is very good.  Nonetheless, if there is not a bye for Solar for a 2005 team, do those players need to find another club?  As for fall boys on FCD and Texan teams, I am assuming they will be able to find other teams within their club on which they can play.  The answer may be those kids currently in clubs without a 2005 team in Classic League just drew the short straw and have to find a new team in a different club.  If that is the case, that is life.  At the end of the day, someone is probably getting "more screwed" than someone else, but there are more important things to spend your time worrying about (e.g. ISIS, having to spend Thanksgiving with in-laws, etc.).  Anyway, does anyone have any insight on the foregoing fact pattern?

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Re: AP Consequences

Post by OP05 on 11/24/2015, 9:32 am

Things keep changing so I wouldn't get too worked up about it yet, but what you said above is pretty much what I have heard about how the 05 byes will work.   The same thing is apparently in process on the girls' side too.  

Seems like classic should have a workaround for teams like Castro and Oglesby 06.  It will be interesting.  

Uncleof05AP wrote:Out of full disclosure, this "select" soccer world is new to me, and I find it more confusing than a David Lynch movie, especially when y'all start talking about "byes."  After crunching the numbers on my Commodore 64, however, I thought that I had the new landscape figured out.  Now, however, I am not sure, especially when considering the 2005 boys.  If the bye stays with the younger kids, that would mean the kids born in 2005 on a current '05 team (the spring boys) would keep the bye next year as they move to U12.  Under that scenario, the boys born in 2005 currently on '06 teams (the fall boys) would not have to qualify for Classic League.  Instead, they would have to find a team with a bye that needed players (assuming they are skilled enough for the team, etc.).  Generally speaking, I am not necessarily sure that is a bad thing (even though I am constantly told that qualifying for Classic League is a passage to manhood that every child should experience).  What happens, however, if you are a "fall boy" on a current '06 team where the club does not have a 2005 team in Classic League?  Take for instance, Solar.  As I understand it, the '06 Solar (Castro) team is very good.  Nonetheless, if there is not a bye for Solar for a 2005 team, do those players need to find another club?  As for fall boys on FCD and Texan teams, I am assuming they will be able to find other teams within their club on which they can play.  The answer may be those kids currently in clubs without a 2005 team in Classic League just drew the short straw and have to find a new team in a different club.  If that is the case, that is life.  At the end of the day, someone is probably getting "more screwed" than someone else, but there are more important things to spend your time worrying about (e.g. ISIS, having to spend Thanksgiving with in-laws, etc.).  Anyway, does anyone have any insight on the foregoing fact pattern?

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Re: AP Consequences

Post by Sprint on 11/24/2015, 11:36 am

OP05 wrote:Things keep changing so I wouldn't get too worked up about it yet, but what you said above is pretty much what I have heard about how the 05 byes will work.   The same thing is apparently in process on the girls' side too.  

Seems like classic should have a workaround for teams like Castro and Oglesby 06.  It will be interesting.  

Uncleof05AP wrote:Out of full disclosure, this "select" soccer world is new to me, and I find it more confusing than a David Lynch movie, especially when y'all start talking about "byes."  After crunching the numbers on my Commodore 64, however, I thought that I had the new landscape figured out.  Now, however, I am not sure, especially when considering the 2005 boys.  If the bye stays with the younger kids, that would mean the kids born in 2005 on a current '05 team (the spring boys) would keep the bye next year as they move to U12.  Under that scenario, the boys born in 2005 currently on '06 teams (the fall boys) would not have to qualify for Classic League.  Instead, they would have to find a team with a bye that needed players (assuming they are skilled enough for the team, etc.).  Generally speaking, I am not necessarily sure that is a bad thing (even though I am constantly told that qualifying for Classic League is a passage to manhood that every child should experience).  What happens, however, if you are a "fall boy" on a current '06 team where the club does not have a 2005 team in Classic League?  Take for instance, Solar.  As I understand it, the '06 Solar (Castro) team is very good.  Nonetheless, if there is not a bye for Solar for a 2005 team, do those players need to find another club?  As for fall boys on FCD and Texan teams, I am assuming they will be able to find other teams within their club on which they can play.  The answer may be those kids currently in clubs without a 2005 team in Classic League just drew the short straw and have to find a new team in a different club.  If that is the case, that is life.  At the end of the day, someone is probably getting "more screwed" than someone else, but there are more important things to spend your time worrying about (e.g. ISIS, having to spend Thanksgiving with in-laws, etc.).  Anyway, does anyone have any insight on the foregoing fact pattern?


It appears you are right and the fall 05 kids on current 06 teams will be looking for age pure 05 teams. Last I heard USSF still has not decided if DA for U12 next year will be 04 birth year kids or 05 birth year kids. If it is 05 birth year kids for U12 DA, then Solar would have an 05 DA team next year that may also be an option.


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Re: AP Consequences

Post by OP05 on 11/24/2015, 12:32 pm

I'm hearing, admittedly from 04 solar parents, that it's the 04s that will be next up for USSF academy.




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Re: AP Consequences

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