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To Play, or Not to Play???

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To Play, or Not to Play???

Post by hanallalone on 10/23/2016, 8:04 am

I was just curious as to how the soccer community feels about playing time in the U-15 divisions...  Every coach has to navigate the perilous currents of the playing time river, and it is not always a fun ride (especially for the coach)...  I have always been of the opinion that when you get to a certain age/division that you pay to train, and NOT for playing time...  Now I would not apply that method of player management to all teams, but if the team is in the hunt to win D1, I always assumed that the general consensus is that you play the strongest lineup possible and only sub if your starters are tired, injured, or not performing...  The "non-starters" are constantly auditioning for the job of the player that they come in for, and that is a healthy competition that promotes individual players to give 100% and put in extra work if needed...  Now if a team has no chance of advancement, maybe you manage the games differently???  On the flip side:  I hear "it is all about development" fairly often, and I agree that development is the goal...  However, you can develop your entire roster at practice and play the matches to show your best possible product...  Is that not what competition is supposed to be?  This is COMPETITIVE soccer, and the fact the players pay seems to have clouded the water in my opinion...  

A coach is essentially a teacher, and a club is a soccer school...  In school, ALL kids go to class and are given grades to reflect their academic proficiency...  The school sends certain kids to UIL events, but not ALL students are allowed to compete!!!  Is the fact that we pay the driving factor behind the parents who complain that their kid is not getting enough game time?  Should playing time be expected, or earned?  There is rec soccer and there is competitive soccer, and in my opinion the two have been blended a bit to create a culture of coach bullies (start a support group)...  I question the actions/decisions of coaches almost every time I go out to a match, and I think we are all "armchair quarterbacks" to some extent...  However, I bitch and complain without ever cornering the coach and telling him/her that my kid did not play enough (I don't talk to the coach)...  Once parents start to push the coach for playing time it is all over; it is a hard enough job to evaluate and place the best kids out there week in and week out WITHOUT the parents pressure...  I often wonder why coaches who have outstanding credentials make some of the bone headed moves that they make, an I have come to the conclusion that they are being held hostage by parents who truly believe that their payment earns the right for game time...  In my OPINION, the line between rec and competitive needs to be re-established so that these coaches can do their jobs and put the best product on the pitch without fear of losing their ability to feed their family!  Oh what a great world it would be if coaches and politicians could do their jobs to the best of their ability without crumbling under the immense pressure of those who pay them...  

Once again, I am curious...  I would love to hear the various opinions and reasons why WITHOUT any venom or people slinging mud if at all possible...  I just think it is an important topic...


Last edited by hanallalone on 10/23/2016, 8:12 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : sp)
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Re: To Play, or Not to Play???

Post by PremierLeagueFan on 10/23/2016, 9:38 am

In D1 CL you play to win and you play the players who will help you win. A coach should rotate the starting roster to achieve a winning combination every week and if players aren't performing then a winning coach will try something new.

A D1 team with too many players and a coach who rotates everyone in regardless of game performance won't last in D1 because the emphasis is on winning by the players and the clubs.

Stricker won the first half of the season and is going to Dallas Cup. If Stricker wins CL his team will be be awarded entry into an additional competitive league and if he wins State cup his team will have the opportunity to play in the National tournament and his players will have a chance to be identified.  CL D1 rewards success and in the Stricker example the team is well aware of the importance of winning and will pull out all the stops to achieve a win.

Some may hate the reality of D1 competition and pressure to win, but in that regard there is no difference between CL and DA or any other competitive league with a national tournament.
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Re: To Play, or Not to Play???

Post by hanallalone on 10/23/2016, 9:48 am

One more thing:  The games (IMO) are a test, but the test is for the COACH and NOT the entire roster!!!  Each match the coach is showing the "possibility" under his tutelage with his strongest pupils...  This is his product, PERIOD!!!  At a stock show, the ranchers don't get graded on every animal they own...  PLF hit the nail on the head; IF you win you advance...  -It is a competition within the team AND against the other teams-
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Re: To Play, or Not to Play???

Post by Soccer27 on 10/23/2016, 10:10 am

I agree, at what point does it jump from about development to about winning. You see teams that weaker kids are played or kept on the roster as a paying spot or loyalty. My BB hasn't always been the best and probably never be the best. I've seen the levels of Plano, Arlington, classic D3-D1, and now DA. I believe at a certain level and age it should move to about winning. The biys will continue developing at practice and extra training. But the game should be about putting the best players on the field

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Re: To Play, or Not to Play???

Post by Marvelousmar on 10/23/2016, 11:13 am

Oh dang this is an interesting topic. Here is a question for the room. I believe DA mandates a certain amount of playing time for the development of the player. So
maybe our problem is having kids on the wrong level side. Kids that Play/pay in Classic that might be better off playing on a lower level side. Too many folks have the classic or bust mentailty which leads to the playing time nightmare. Not to say we don't have the questions on lower level sides. But each child you sign should have the possibility to battle for a chance to play. If they earn it then they get on the field. But no wat to know unless you give them a legit chance to show what they can do.
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Re: To Play, or Not to Play???

Post by hanallalone on 10/23/2016, 11:22 am

When you're up 4 goals, throw a few guys in and say "make it IMPOSSIBLE for me to pull you out"... It is all about that player owning the moment! Every touch in practice should be evaluated, and scrimmages reveal the true potential... Scrimmages, indoor, non-sanctioned leagues etc... There are a several avenues to recognition outside of playing in the big games...
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Re: To Play, or Not to Play???

Post by Marvelousmar on 10/23/2016, 11:29 am

One more thing.  The game is the test for both the kids and the coach no matter what division.  Some are ready for the test some are not.  But 3 minutes on the pitch in mop up time is  not a test.   Trying to find that balance between development and winning is alwayd going to be a tough act to balance. Lets say you havr an 18 man roster. In 50 matches plus scrimmages we should br able to find a game where 18 gets to start and show what he can do. Then its up to 18 to own the moment. This needs to be explained to the child so he understands as well. Some rise when challenged and some fail. I recall on sone of my teams in the past a kid I signed as 18 working there tail in one season to crack the 11. That wouldn't happen if the chance was never given. Doing it is a challenge but way too many chances in a season not to find a way and a time for 18 to challenge 16 12 to challenge 10. etc.
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Re: To Play, or Not to Play???

Post by zero on 10/23/2016, 12:02 pm

Sorry but I have to disagree with a lot that was written.

1 . it isn't about the development of the players individually. While I agree that some coaches do a better job of developing players as a whole I have yet to see an instance where each players gets individual attention to work on their specific deficiency

2. If you only need 14 players (meaning that is all you are going to play) then you should only sign 14 players. The caveat to that is if you offer a player a practice slot and let them now up front they won't even dress for the game because they won't get in then I have no issue. I can pretty much guarantee that if I spoke to the kid's parents who is the last on the bench I have no doubt that what he was told how his son was going to be used is likely very different in how he is going to be used. If you have a kid that you don't plan to play in games then you should not have signed him. You only did so for the money

3. The contract (at least for the normal folk) ties you in for one year meaning unless you get a release you can't go somewhere else and since most teams are filled you are really stuck. While I would have no issue getting a unconditional release anytime I want most normal folk can't do that. Not to mention payment is up front or broken down to where complete payment is made pretty quickly so you are stuck financially. I'd get my money back one way or the other but most would not or could not do that.

Lastly if a coach is honest (and I have seen a few, but a very few) then I have no issue how he uses any of the kids, but I do have an issue when they sell the parent's a bill of goods up front.

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Re: To Play, or Not to Play???

Post by hanallalone on 10/23/2016, 12:20 pm

Exactly what part do you disagree with (quotes)? Not arguing, but did not see this specified and truly want to understand...
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Re: To Play, or Not to Play???

Post by Josecuervo on 10/23/2016, 12:24 pm

At the end it will be the coaches decision, since it is the coaches decision it should be up to him to make the "not to play" kids "To play".

My own experience has taught me that youth soccer in Dallas (we come from a different state) its about the coaches reputation, not the development of the player, it is a business and nothing more. If you want your bb to succeed you find your own way, your CL coach will do nothing for you. I want to clarify, my son is a starter and gets plenty of playing time, my comments are a general overview of the topic at hand.

Soccer is a team sport, you can not talk about single player, if a single player shines is because the team did well. Also, if parents keep being as addictive as i see them on the sidelines it will make coaches jobs harder, but as it has been mentioned before, it seems as if the coaches every July have to meet a quota for their respective clubs, having at the end to pick the players he did not want to consider when June came around and therefore give a kid the illusion that he will be getting "enough" playing time. By the way, can a parent know if his kid is getting enough playing time? What, who, how determines "enough" playing time?

DA is no different as i hear from DA parents and i build my own conclusions, if Developmental Academy is just that Developmental, the chosen ones (maybe not at the younger age they are being picked) should be kept and developed until the end, and not have tryouts every year, wasn't that the reason they were picked to begin with? Yes i understand new talent comes in every year.....maybe change tryout times every 2 years and actually see a Development of a child??? And no, my bb was asked if he wanted to try out for DA and he said no, he didn't think he was ready.

If you are in a D1 CL team, better make sure your team does well. If not, you better start looking for a different team because if you get "Not To Play" time this year you may not see "To play" time with the same team at all next year.

Thanks Hannallalone for such interesting topic, i also would like to add, how do you do to talk about most of the games every week? You must have informants all over or are you one of the addictive dads i speak of above that drive to go watch a game where your bb is not even in it?

Cheers. Drink responsibly...

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Re: To Play, or Not to Play???

Post by zero on 10/23/2016, 12:51 pm

hanallalone wrote:Exactly what part do you disagree with (quotes)? Not arguing, but did not see this specified and truly want to understand...  

You said " I have always been of the opinion that when you get to a certain age/division that you pay to train, and NOT for playing time"

All depends on what was said

You said "I always assumed that the general consensus is that you play the strongest lineup possible and only sub if your starters are tired, injured, or not performing"

I have seen many instances where the better kids aren't performing/trying as hard and they stay in.


You said "However, you can develop your entire roster at practice and play the matches to show your best possible product... Is that not what competition is supposed to be? "


Yes you can, but then let the parent know that up front his kid won't play at all.


You said "A coach is essentially a teacher, and a club is a soccer school."

Not when you are paying for it and shopping it up front. When I pay for something I have certain expectations. If they are not met then I should be able to take my business elsewhere. While I would be able to get a release most aren't in the position where they can do so.



You said "Is the fact that we pay the driving factor behind the parents who complain that their kid is not getting enough game time? Should playing time be expected, or earned? "

Yes that is the factor. It should be earned unless it is expected based on what was said to you and based on my conversations with many many parents over the years the expectations sold to them were far different than the reality.


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Re: To Play, or Not to Play???

Post by hanallalone on 10/23/2016, 12:56 pm

Well said Zero... Thanks for your input!!!
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Re: To Play, or Not to Play???

Post by soccerdadrandy on 10/23/2016, 1:44 pm

hanallalone wrote:I was just curious as to how the soccer community feels about playing time in the U-15 divisions...  Every coach has to navigate the perilous currents of the playing time river, and it is not always a fun ride (especially for the coach)...  I have always been of the opinion that when you get to a certain age/division that you pay to train, and NOT for playing time...  Now I would not apply that method of player management to all teams, but if the team is in the hunt to win D1, I always assumed that the general consensus is that you play the strongest lineup possible and only sub if your starters are tired, injured, or not performing...  The "non-starters" are constantly auditioning for the job of the player that they come in for, and that is a healthy competition that promotes individual players to give 100% and put in extra work if needed...  Now if a team has no chance of advancement, maybe you manage the games differently???  On the flip side:  I hear "it is all about development" fairly often, and I agree that development is the goal...  However, you can develop your entire roster at practice and play the matches to show your best possible product...  Is that not what competition is supposed to be?  This is COMPETITIVE soccer, and the fact the players pay seems to have clouded the water in my opinion...  

A coach is essentially a teacher, and a club is a soccer school...  In school, ALL kids go to class and are given grades to reflect their academic proficiency...  The school sends certain kids to UIL events, but not ALL students are allowed to compete!!!  Is the fact that we pay the driving factor behind the parents who complain that their kid is not getting enough game time?  Should playing time be expected, or earned?  There is rec soccer and there is competitive soccer, and in my opinion the two have been blended a bit to create a culture of coach bullies (start a support group)...  I question the actions/decisions of coaches almost every time I go out to a match, and I think we are all "armchair quarterbacks" to some extent...  However, I bitch and complain without ever cornering the coach and telling him/her that my kid did not play enough (I don't talk to the coach)...  Once parents start to push the coach for playing time it is all over; it is a hard enough job to evaluate and place the best kids out there week in and week out WITHOUT the parents pressure...  I often wonder why coaches who have outstanding credentials make some of the bone headed moves that they make, an I have come to the conclusion that they are being held hostage by parents who truly believe that their payment earns the right for game time...  In my OPINION, the line between rec and competitive needs to be re-established so that these coaches can do their jobs and put the best product on the pitch without fear of losing their ability to feed their family!  Oh what a great world it would be if coaches and politicians could do their jobs to the best of their ability without crumbling under the immense pressure of those who pay them...  

Once again, I am curious...  I would love to hear the various opinions and reasons why WITHOUT any venom or people slinging mud if at all possible...  I just think it is an important topic...

the biggest problem with youth soccer is the fact that you have to define which competitive league and division a child plays in. you mentioned UIL in academics. i wonder why parents can't pay to place their child in UIL division 2 or 3?
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Re: To Play, or Not to Play???

Post by soccerdadrandy on 10/23/2016, 1:49 pm

You said "A coach is essentially a teacher, and a club is a soccer school."

Not when you are paying for it and shopping it up front.  When I pay for something I have certain expectations.  If they are not met then I should be able to take my business elsewhere.  While I would be able to get a release most aren't in the position where they can do so.[/quote]

you can take you business elsewhere. every JUNE!!!
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Re: To Play, or Not to Play???

Post by zero on 10/23/2016, 2:29 pm

soccerdadrandy wrote:You said "A coach is essentially a teacher, and a club is a soccer school."

Not when you are paying for it and shopping it up front.  When I pay for something I have certain expectations.  If they are not met then I should be able to take my business elsewhere.  While I would be able to get a release most aren't in the position where they can do so.

you can take you business elsewhere. every JUNE!!![/quote]

Which is why I believe parents have a right to complain. I also don't have to wait until June. If I was unhappy i would get my release right away. Even if I did so it would be very hard to find a team that wasn't full so there is that. Most people though likely would not be able to get their release and would end up having to stay the year.

Parents have to write large checks and commit for a year. Upon writing that check they might be unhappy 30 days in. Therein lies the problem. If this were all month to month or season to season or if it were free then I would support the parents less.

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Re: To Play, or Not to Play???

Post by soccerdadrandy on 10/23/2016, 4:27 pm

zero wrote:
soccerdadrandy wrote:You said "A coach is essentially a teacher, and a club is a soccer school."

Not when you are paying for it and shopping it up front.  When I pay for something I have certain expectations.  If they are not met then I should be able to take my business elsewhere.  While I would be able to get a release most aren't in the position where they can do so.

you can take you business elsewhere. every JUNE!!!

Which is why I believe parents have a right to complain.  I also don't have to wait until June.  If I was unhappy i would get my release right away.  Even if I did so it would be very hard to find a team that wasn't full so there is that.  Most people though likely would not be able to get their release and would end up having to stay the year.  

Parents have to write large checks and commit for a year.  Upon writing that check they might be unhappy 30 days in.  Therein lies the problem.  If this were all month to month or season to season or if it were free then I would support the parents less.[/quote]
I assume we are all parents. Not sure any parents need or want your support. It's decision everyone makes and deals with. It's a Hillary League. Pay to play
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Re: To Play, or Not to Play???

Post by zero on 10/23/2016, 4:52 pm

soccerdadrandy wrote:
zero wrote:
soccerdadrandy wrote:You said "A coach is essentially a teacher, and a club is a soccer school."

Not when you are paying for it and shopping it up front.  When I pay for something I have certain expectations.  If they are not met then I should be able to take my business elsewhere.  While I would be able to get a release most aren't in the position where they can do so.

you can take you business elsewhere. every JUNE!!!

Which is why I believe parents have a right to complain.  I also don't have to wait until June.  If I was unhappy i would get my release right away.  Even if I did so it would be very hard to find a team that wasn't full so there is that.  Most people though likely would not be able to get their release and would end up having to stay the year.  

Parents have to write large checks and commit for a year.  Upon writing that check they might be unhappy 30 days in.  Therein lies the problem.  If this were all month to month or season to season or if it were free then I would support the parents less.
I assume we are all parents. Not sure any parents need or want your support. It's decision everyone makes and deals with. It's a Hillary League. Pay to play[/quote]

I don't really care if they need or want my support. A thread was started asking a question. I answered it and my answer was that I believe paying does allow one to have an expectation of playing time. Why are you part of an opinion board if you don't want opinions?

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Re: To Play, or Not to Play???

Post by soccerdadrandy on 10/23/2016, 4:57 pm

zero wrote:
soccerdadrandy wrote:
zero wrote:
soccerdadrandy wrote:You said "A coach is essentially a teacher, and a club is a soccer school."

Not when you are paying for it and shopping it up front.  When I pay for something I have certain expectations.  If they are not met then I should be able to take my business elsewhere.  While I would be able to get a release most aren't in the position where they can do so.

you can take you business elsewhere. every JUNE!!!

Which is why I believe parents have a right to complain.  I also don't have to wait until June.  If I was unhappy i would get my release right away.  Even if I did so it would be very hard to find a team that wasn't full so there is that.  Most people though likely would not be able to get their release and would end up having to stay the year.  

Parents have to write large checks and commit for a year.  Upon writing that check they might be unhappy 30 days in.  Therein lies the problem.  If this were all month to month or season to season or if it were free then I would support the parents less.
I assume we are all parents. Not sure any parents need or want your support. It's decision everyone makes and deals with. It's a Hillary League. Pay to play

I don't really care if they need or want my support.  A thread was started asking a question.  I answered it and my answer was that I believe paying does allow one to have an expectation of playing time.  Why are you part of an opinion board if you don't want opinions?[/quote]
Nothing wrong with your opinion. You went on to say "most" couldn't get their release immediately as you would/could. Just sounded like you were overly concerned for adults making a less than  "life and death" decision.
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Re: To Play, or Not to Play???

Post by zero on 10/23/2016, 5:15 pm

Ahh got it. What I meant was most don't have the means or knowledge to be able to get a release so they feel like they don't have that option. I have talked to many parents (maybe 8 or over the past 3+ years) that have expressed that they might have tried to switch teams if they could. Many felt stuck. That sucks to be in that position when spending this kind of money. I don't believe in holding people/kids ransom. I go in knowing full well if I ever want a release I'll have it in a day or two, but that is not the norm.

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Re: To Play, or Not to Play???

Post by hanallalone on 10/24/2016, 6:19 am

Josecuervo wrote:

Thanks Hannallalone for such interesting topic, i also would like to add, how do you do to talk about most of the games every week? You must have informants all over or are you one of the addictive dads i speak of above that drive to go watch a game where your bb is not even in it?

Cheers. Drink responsibly...

I actually DO have informants, just as many of us here on the forum do - our friends...  The soccer community is pretty tight, so those of us with similar interests and ample time to BS break down the results and share opinions when we can...  Have I been known to watch a match or 2 that we did not play in ?  Absolutely!!!  But honestly, it is more like scouting for the sake of watching a great match and preparing my boys for the tasks at hand...  I don't think I am alone in this practice, and actually believe it is more common than one would expect...  Thanks for all the input Cuervo....
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Re: To Play, or Not to Play???

Post by Number13 on 10/24/2016, 9:06 am

Life is a risk business. You sign a contract with some expectations, and biases, and maybe it does or doesn't work out. I would guess there are a lot of doubts, but most of the coaches and parents think they are doing the right think July 1st.

Very few people sign a contract expecting to be the last kid on the team. They all know that is going to happen to somebody, but they don't expect that to be them. And I think every year there is usually some (perhaps significant) level of shift in the coach's viewpoints on kids (particularly newer kids) from the first day of tryouts until the end of the season. You can't always predict what is going to happen over 9 months. So it's not like in most situations that the coach is lying to parents or neglecting to tell parents the harsh truth. Sometimes shite doesn't work out, and because this is America that means it's a perfectly normal to lawyer up and lose your mind and start blaming other people. But I'm only working off of one coaching data point....but a lot of parent points.

I get that we are all parents and our overarching concern is our own child and nobody wants to see their kid struggling or unhappy. What is the most important thing you think your kid is learning from club soccer? Do you think its soccer itself? Maybe it is. Are they learning that their parents are gonna get them out of any uncomfortable or tough situation? Maybe in some cases. I would guess I won't know the answer until the journey is long over if ever, but I don't really want them to learn that life is easy and fair and it's all about them being happy 100% of the time or else. There is a point where I'm not going to intentionally make them miserable but we are living with our decisions in one year increments barring something just crazy.

Personally I like that soccer is largely a meritocracy. And despite the biases, it mostly is. Do it or don't do it. Get better, or don't. Put in the time, or don't. And if things aren't going your way, then tough nuggets, sometimes life is an uphill iceskate. But at the same time, it's also a team. And it's also a sport being played by 13-14 year old kids. Play all the kids who come to practice enough for them to try to make an impact, every game. If my kid is on the bench so that another kid who trains and is giving it their all is in the game, then so be it. Cheer for the teammate. Accept the results. Do what you can with your time. Then go work a little bit harder to make it even tougher to take you out. But that is just my opinion and my kids tend to play a lot. Will freely admit I barely watch the games when my kids are not in. Not because I'm mad, I just have ADD and that's a good time to check my FFL team or unleash my dragons on your town hall or catch up on an episode of New Girl.

The contrast between how people view school sports and select soccer has always amused me. There are a LOT of people who play school sports who accept zero/low PT with little complaints or insanity. Is it just the paying money that does it? The fact that you have options on select soccer? There are a zillion fools trying out for football and 60% of those who make the team don't play. There are two kids on BBs club soccer team who don't play much. Club soccer coach told them both they likely would not play much in games this season. Both sets parents (I know one very well, the other less so) seem very accepting about the whole thing. They both play pretty much all of the school sports. In the end usually the kids who play the least tend to go try something else the next year. But historically it seems to me that the people who tend to freak out now are the people who get to play some but feel like they ought to play all.

In the end, it would make me very uncomfortable if I saw things the same as most people as I am not a huge fan of most people. Present company excluded, obviously.






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Re: To Play, or Not to Play???

Post by SnookumsConCarne on 10/24/2016, 9:26 am

Number13 wrote:Life is a risk business.  You sign a contract with some expectations, and biases, and maybe it does or doesn't work out.   I would guess there are a lot of doubts, but most of the coaches and parents think they are doing the right think July 1st.  

Very few people sign a contract expecting to be the last kid on the team.   They all know that is going to happen to somebody, but they don't expect that to be them.    And I think every year there is usually some (perhaps significant) level of shift in the coach's viewpoints on kids (particularly newer kids) from the first day of tryouts until the end of the season.    You can't always predict what is going to happen over 9 months.  So it's not like in most situations that the coach is lying to parents or neglecting to tell parents the harsh truth.   Sometimes shite doesn't work out, and because this is America that means it's a perfectly normal to lawyer up and lose your mind and start blaming other people.    But I'm only working off of one coaching data point....but a lot of parent points.

I get that we are all parents and our overarching concern is our own child and nobody wants to see their kid struggling or unhappy.  What is the most important thing you think your kid is learning from club soccer?   Do you think its soccer itself?    Maybe it is.   Are they learning that their parents are gonna get them out of any uncomfortable or tough situation?    Maybe in some cases.   I would guess I won't know the answer until the journey is long over if ever, but I don't really want them to learn that life is easy and fair and it's all about them being happy 100% of the time or else.   There is a point where I'm not going to intentionally make them miserable but we are living with our decisions in one year increments barring something just crazy.  

Personally I like that soccer is largely a meritocracy.   And despite the biases, it mostly is.   Do it or don't do it.  Get better, or don't.   Put in the time, or don't.   And if things aren't going your way, then tough nuggets, sometimes life is an uphill iceskate.   But at the same time, it's also a team.   And it's also a sport being played by 13-14 year old kids.   Play all the kids who come to practice enough for them to try to make an impact, every game.   If my kid is on the bench so that another kid who trains and is giving it their all is in the game, then so be it.   Cheer for the teammate.   Accept the results.   Do what you can with your time.   Then go work a little bit harder to make it even tougher to take you out.   But that is just my opinion and my kids tend to play a lot.    Will freely admit I barely watch the games when my kids are not in.   Not because I'm mad, I just have ADD and that's a good time to check my FFL team or unleash my dragons on your town hall or catch up on an episode of New Girl.  

The contrast between how people view school sports and select soccer has always amused me.   There are a LOT of people who play school sports who accept zero/low PT with little complaints or insanity.   Is it just the paying money that does it?   The fact that you have options on select soccer?    There are a zillion fools trying out for football and 60% of those who make the team don't play.   There are two kids on BBs club soccer team who don't play much.  Club soccer coach told them both they likely would not play much in games this season.   Both sets parents (I know one very well, the other less so) seem very accepting about the whole thing.   They both play pretty much all of the school sports.    In the end usually the kids who play the least tend to go try something else the next year.   But historically it seems to me that the  people who tend to freak out now are the people who get to play some but feel like they ought to play all.  

In the end, it would make me very uncomfortable if I saw things the same as most people as I am not a huge fan of most people.   Present company excluded, obviously.  







Awesome!
I totally liked how you wrote this.
Straight to the point.

But, I doubt that there are a Zillion kids trying out for football, Sir.
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Re: To Play, or Not to Play???

Post by Soccer10Dad on 10/24/2016, 9:39 am

Not to change topic but im stuck in a similar situation but its not playing time, its the coaching im not agreeing with. I was vocal to my coach about it and now all of a sudden my kids playing time is getting impacted. Retaliation perhaps?

At what point do you just pickup and leave? I've heard our coach will not sign releases, that leaves me little hope. Perhaps we can play indoor and non sanctioned leagues, (Primetime - PIT?), and train at city futsal until June.

I could lawyer up but that seems excessive

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Re: To Play, or Not to Play???

Post by Soccerballball on 10/24/2016, 9:45 am

Number13 wrote:Life is a risk business.  You sign a contract with some expectations, and biases, and maybe it does or doesn't work out.   I would guess there are a lot of doubts, but most of the coaches and parents think they are doing the right think July 1st.  

Very few people sign a contract expecting to be the last kid on the team.   They all know that is going to happen to somebody, but they don't expect that to be them.    And I think every year there is usually some (perhaps significant) level of shift in the coach's viewpoints on kids (particularly newer kids) from the first day of tryouts until the end of the season.    You can't always predict what is going to happen over 9 months.  So it's not like in most situations that the coach is lying to parents or neglecting to tell parents the harsh truth.   Sometimes shite doesn't work out, and because this is America that means it's a perfectly normal to lawyer up and lose your mind and start blaming other people.    But I'm only working off of one coaching data point....but a lot of parent points.

I get that we are all parents and our overarching concern is our own child and nobody wants to see their kid struggling or unhappy.  What is the most important thing you think your kid is learning from club soccer?   Do you think its soccer itself?    Maybe it is.   Are they learning that their parents are gonna get them out of any uncomfortable or tough situation?    Maybe in some cases.   I would guess I won't know the answer until the journey is long over if ever, but I don't really want them to learn that life is easy and fair and it's all about them being happy 100% of the time or else.   There is a point where I'm not going to intentionally make them miserable but we are living with our decisions in one year increments barring something just crazy.  

Personally I like that soccer is largely a meritocracy.   And despite the biases, it mostly is.   Do it or don't do it.  Get better, or don't.   Put in the time, or don't.   And if things aren't going your way, then tough nuggets, sometimes life is an uphill iceskate.   But at the same time, it's also a team.   And it's also a sport being played by 13-14 year old kids.   Play all the kids who come to practice enough for them to try to make an impact, every game.   If my kid is on the bench so that another kid who trains and is giving it their all is in the game, then so be it.   Cheer for the teammate.   Accept the results.   Do what you can with your time.   Then go work a little bit harder to make it even tougher to take you out.   But that is just my opinion and my kids tend to play a lot.    Will freely admit I barely watch the games when my kids are not in.   Not because I'm mad, I just have ADD and that's a good time to check my FFL team or unleash my dragons on your town hall or catch up on an episode of New Girl.  

The contrast between how people view school sports and select soccer has always amused me.   There are a LOT of people who play school sports who accept zero/low PT with little complaints or insanity.   Is it just the paying money that does it?   The fact that you have options on select soccer?    There are a zillion fools trying out for football and 60% of those who make the team don't play.   There are two kids on BBs club soccer team who don't play much.  Club soccer coach told them both they likely would not play much in games this season.   Both sets parents (I know one very well, the other less so) seem very accepting about the whole thing.   They both play pretty much all of the school sports.    In the end usually the kids who play the least tend to go try something else the next year.   But historically it seems to me that the  people who tend to freak out now are the people who get to play some but feel like they ought to play all.  

In the end, it would make me very uncomfortable if I saw things the same as most people as I am not a huge fan of most people.   Present company excluded, obviously.  "


I TOTALLY AGREE with this - you sir are awesome - btw - bring on your dragons - I wish all parents would conduct themselves in this manner - we make too many excuses for our kids - and we NEVER let them fail! I let my kids fail as much as possible - it is what makes them stronger! Good for you and best of luck - we can hang out anytime!




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Re: To Play, or Not to Play???

Post by allen04 on 10/24/2016, 9:48 am

The contrast between how people view school sports and select soccer has always amused me. There are a LOT of people who play school sports who accept zero/low PT with little complaints or insanity. Is it just the paying money that does it? The fact that you have options on select soccer? There are a zillion fools trying out for football and 60% of those who make the team don't play.

So many options for most of us with select soccer so its easy to move on. I wouldn't pack up the house and move out to Lovejoy just because my kids can't compete on a high school team in Allen.
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