R1 wrote:

OnTheSurface wrote:Coaches come and go from clubs all the time. I don't know why we are having all of this venom directed towards Andromeda, they are hardly the only offender. This summer we had several big names move to other clubs and I didn't see any long dramatic threads about that?

The timing of this particular one was unfortunate, as stated many times.

And it's a little unbelievable too that yall are critiquing this poor man for giving up something that he loved doing, in order to take a real job to feed his family.

What does feeding his family have to do with anything? He's going to quit anyway, why not come clean to the families before signing day? Was it a requirement for his new job that he withhold this information from the families on his team? Was the club going to withhold his last paycheck if he didn't play along? Regardless of whether the team is fine with it now or whether everything has turned out alright, it still shows deception by the club and coach - if it happened this way.

Speaking of which have they located the $4 million?

THE NEEDLE wrote:

R1 wrote:

OnTheSurface wrote:Coaches come and go from clubs all the time. I don't know why we are having all of this venom directed towards Andromeda, they are hardly the only offender. This summer we had several big names move to other clubs and I didn't see any long dramatic threads about that?

The timing of this particular one was unfortunate, as stated many times.

And it's a little unbelievable too that yall are critiquing this poor man for giving up something that he loved doing, in order to take a real job to feed his family.

What does feeding his family have to do with anything? He's going to quit anyway, why not come clean to the families before signing day? Was it a requirement for his new job that he withhold this information from the families on his team? Was the club going to withhold his last paycheck if he didn't play along? Regardless of whether the team is fine with it now or whether everything has turned out alright, it still shows deception by the club and coach - if it happened this way.

Speaking of which have they located the $4 million?

I love The Needle! Always straight and to the point.

And he is responsible for making me what I am today!

You leave me in stitches, doily!

Crochet wrote:

THE NEEDLE wrote:

R1 wrote:

OnTheSurface wrote:Coaches come and go from clubs all the time. I don't know why we are having all of this venom directed towards Andromeda, they are hardly the only offender. This summer we had several big names move to other clubs and I didn't see any long dramatic threads about that?

The timing of this particular one was unfortunate, as stated many times.

And it's a little unbelievable too that yall are critiquing this poor man for giving up something that he loved doing, in order to take a real job to feed his family.

What does feeding his family have to do with anything? He's going to\ quit anyway, why not come clean to the families before signing day? Was it a requirement for his new job that he withhold this information from the families on his team? Was the club going to withhold his last paycheck if he didn't play along? Regardless of whether the team is fine with it now or whether everything has turned out alright, it still shows deception by the club and coach - if it happened this way.

Speaking of which have they located the $4 million?

I love The Needle! Always straight and to the point.

And he is responsible for making me what I am today!

Since I only have one eye it is hard to tell, but it seams you are well rounded with a few small holes.

homer999 wrote:Congrats to the team and the former coach, but this isn't about you.
The reason I didn't use your team but left the post as generic is that this is an example of deceptive practices employed by NTX clubs in general that should be highlighted as inappropriate whenever seen. Andro's dealing with the parents in this case looks similiar to thier financial handlings. For us to pay some of the highest prices per kid in the world for youth soccer, we should hold the clubs to a higher standard.

Please, why bring it up if you don't want to talk specifics. This was a unique situation that yes, was handled poorly by all involved. Move on already, it seems our team has so you can as well. Later gator.

Actually he just used your team as an example of some of the overall practices in NTX it was not about you at all. It seems maybe you haven't got over it because you seem very sensative about it.

It's also unusual for a coach to leave one club to go to another, and then leave that club so fast. How long was he at Andro? Just in between the seasons? Did Solar kids follow him to Andro? Those are the kids/parents that might be pretty upset.

I remember a few years back a dad telling me that he had signed his kid in a club after choosing carefully the coach (U12 level I think). He was very happy the first practice, he loved the coach, his behavior and the practices he was running. Then the second day the club introduced a new coach (that nobody had seen before) who would take that team all year long for games and practices. And yes, I am making sure you get the info: that club was FCdallas.
Another occurrence; we are not talking about one club, one team or one coach we are talking about the clubs behavior in general in NTX. And again I strongly believe WE the customer need to make them sweat a bit more because WE are paying them to provide a service.

And when are WE the costumers going to start a union and protect our rights?

numero10 wrote:And when are WE the costumers going to start a union and protect our rights?

Yes, we're about due for another revolution. Allez les Sans-culottes!

numero10 wrote:And when are WE the costumers going to start a union and protect our rights?

Yeah, we really need another union in this country...

Why don't you just insist to your coach or DOC of your club that the coach has to be identified in your club contract and conditions under which this coach can be changed have to be clearly specified? Yeah we're all paying a lot of money but the piece of paper you're signing when you fork over that dough does not afford you ANY say about who ultimately will coach the team.

Yeah some fact sheets indicate who is coaching but the ones I have seen also clearly state it is within the club's rights to change coaches. If you don't like the arrangement and don't trust the club - take your business elsewhere.

I think that some people have forgotten a very important factor--it is completely understandable because we are all talking about our children on here. So, for us, it is personal. Actually, even more personal than if we ourselves were the players. However, this is not personal for any of these big clubs, it is first and foremost a business venture. It always has been and it will continue to be. They are in this to make money. And, it works in much the same way as any other business, if you do not like the service they provide then you should take your business elsewhere. Now, I know that is not possible when there is a coaching "bait and switch" as gaba described because there are contracts. But, what would happen if every player within the club refused to sign the contract until the "we can change the coach anytime we want" paragraph was taken out. (Employing numero10's unionization idea). Contracts can be negotiated--they are not intended to be unilateral. Consumers have to be smarter. Two of us can go down to the corner car dealership and get the exact same car and one of us pay $5000 more than the other because one was better negotiator. There are also other options. If you chose a team because of the coach and he leaves 5 min. after signing, then you can and should take that to the North Texas Board and get a release to go elsewhere. Also, if you don't like the way your club is being run then get on the board and change it. And, finally, if you really want to get out from under their thumbs you can go start your own club and run it however you want. There are a number of options, not all of them are always viable and sometimes you have to live and learn but if you really want things to change the action, not inaction, is required. Just my thoughts . . .

It's much bigger than our little group here.
North Texas controls the show - they need the clubs, therefore, most often, the clubs win in these types of situations...and, to control chaos - the caveat of 'can replace a coach at anytime' and 'no guarantee of playing time' is placed in numerous places. They need the clubs stability (no players leaving mid season - i.e. contracts) to run the show well. You can't blame them for that.

The only way I can think of to prevent this type of thing is, at a team level, meet with the prospective coach and put him on the spot. Ask him if he has other plans and look at his body language as well as what his response might be.

I know of a big, successful club that didn't tell the kids, until it was too late, which team they were to be on for the year. They are in the driver's seat - we have options (rec soccer), they have the product we are seeking. For every kid that would refuse to enter into this folly, there are several behind them that will take their spot.

Some coaches have a strong moral fiber that demands them to come clean with anything that might be untoward, some parents are in the same boat. But...it's not many - how often do you see a parent approach a coach and say they are looking at other teams or coaches saying they are likely to drop a team - it's just not black/white as things can change and they don't want to be left high/dry.

A different league with a different governing body and financial structure is the only way to change anything drastically. If Texans or FCD decided to build their own 'league' - it would cause some changes, mainly Texans as they are the successful club in these parts (relative to national performances).

Ibystander wrote:

numero10 wrote:And when are WE the costumers going to start a union and protect our rights?

Yes, we're about due for another revolution. Allez les Sans-culottes!

Vive les Sans-culottes! Il fait trop chaud!

You had me at one paragraph.

go99 wrote:Actually he just used your team as an example of some of the overall practices in NTX it was not about you at all. It seems maybe you haven't got over it because you seem very sensative about it.

Ughh, this is a beating. If we must perseverate, please provide other examples of this specific situation occurring. Maybe my experiences are too limited to understand the magnitude of the overall practices in NTX. Take it any way you want, but coming in to clarify a specific situation which could for all those involved could hardly be missed is...well I guess expected.

Yak Attack wrote:

go99 wrote:Actually he just used your team as an example of some of the overall practices in NTX it was not about you at all. It seems maybe you haven't got over it because you seem very sensative about it.

Ughh, this is a beating. If we must perseverate, please provide other examples of this specific situation occurring. Maybe my experiences are too limited to understand the magnitude of the overall practices in NTX. Take it any way you want, but coming in to clarify a specific situation which could for all those involved could hardly be missed is...well I guess expected.

Yak - read the posts. 9 hours before your most recent post, Gababa gave another example of another club doing a similiar thing.

This is a broader issue than the poor treatment you and the other parents got from Andro. This is about highlighting such treatment whenever it occurs so parents are in the know and able to go into each new year knowing that not all clubs, not all coaches and not all parents have the same ethics and we might want our kids to be taught.

whyme wrote:

Ibystander wrote:

numero10 wrote:And when are WE the costumers going to start a union and protect our rights?

Yes, we're about due for another revolution. Allez les Sans-culottes!

Vive les Sans-culottes! Il fait trop chaud!

OK, so why are we quoting a French expression which translates into going around without underwear?

soccer23 wrote: But, what would happen if every player within the club refused to sign the contract until the "we can change the coach anytime we want" paragraph was taken out. (Employing numero10's unionization idea). Contracts can be negotiated--they are not intended to be unilateral. Consumers have to be smarter. Two of us can go down to the corner car dealership and get the exact same car and one of us pay $5000 more than the other because one was better negotiator. There are also other options. If you chose a team because of the coach and he leaves 5 min. after signing, then you can and should take that to the North Texas Board and get a release to go elsewhere. Also, if you don't like the way your club is being run then get on the board and change it. And, finally, if you really want to get out from under their thumbs you can go start your own club and run it however you want. There are a number of options, not all of them are always viable and sometimes you have to live and learn but if you really want things to change the action, not inaction, is required. Just my thoughts . . .

Every player refuse to sign until X happens? No way to do that, most parents can't risk their child being left out in the cold in June. If you hold out, you may get left out. With that signing month system there is little chance of any parents organizing a rebellion. And if your coach leaves the day after you signed? Sure, get your release, but where do you go? Maybe there is a short roster on some other team you like the second week in July, but maybe there isn't at that point. Hard for parent shoppers to do much if North Texas Assn doesn't have good rules in place.

soccer taxi wrote:

whyme wrote:

Ibystander wrote:

numero10 wrote:And when are WE the costumers going to start a union and protect our rights?

Yes, we're about due for another revolution. Allez les Sans-culottes!

Vive les Sans-culottes! Il fait trop chaud!

OK, so why are we quoting a French expression which translates into going around without underwear?

Re-read numero10...."costumers" not customers

Dissent,
I do not know if you have heard, but the penalizing for the misconduct of "Dissent" is now demonstrated by a yellow card, and not by the red card on your avatar.
Rm


And before you try to outsmart the USSF and FIFA, if it is a second yellow card, you still show the yellow card for dissent, and then show a red card for "receiving a second caution".

I just did nto want this thread to get very far off track.

soccer taxi wrote:

whyme wrote:

Ibystander wrote:

numero10 wrote:And when are WE the costumers going to start a union and protect our rights?

Yes, we're about due for another revolution. Allez les Sans-culottes!

Vive les Sans-culottes! Il fait trop chaud!

OK, so why are we quoting a French expression which translates into going around without underwear?

I think Smurf was referring the Parisians who defied the nobles during the French Revolution by wearing long trousers instead of the "culottes", or knee-length pants. You're such a rebel, Blue!

Freeatlast wrote:

soccer23 wrote: But, what would happen if every player within the club refused to sign the contract until the "we can change the coach anytime we want" paragraph was taken out. (Employing numero10's unionization idea). Contracts can be negotiated--they are not intended to be unilateral. Consumers have to be smarter. Two of us can go down to the corner car dealership and get the exact same car and one of us pay $5000 more than the other because one was better negotiator. There are also other options. If you chose a team because of the coach and he leaves 5 min. after signing, then you can and should take that to the North Texas Board and get a release to go elsewhere. Also, if you don't like the way your club is being run then get on the board and change it. And, finally, if you really want to get out from under their thumbs you can go start your own club and run it however you want. There are a number of options, not all of them are always viable and sometimes you have to live and learn but if you really want things to change the action, not inaction, is required. Just my thoughts . . .

Every player refuse to sign until X happens? No way to do that, most parents can't risk their child being left out in the cold in June. If you hold out, you may get left out. With that signing month system there is little chance of any parents organizing a rebellion. And if your coach leaves the day after you signed? Sure, get your release, but where do you go? Maybe there is a short roster on some other team you like the second week in July, but maybe there isn't at that point. Hard for parent shoppers to do much if North Texas Assn doesn't have good rules in place.

23,
You have some valid points, but this old dog ain't got the desire to take on youth soccer anymore. The irony in your statement about starting your own club (I hope you meant your own team) made me laugh out loud. Not at you, but the fact that I had my own team for my U14 the last 2 years and I'll say that while it was cheaper than club I'm willing to buy into the system for now just to take a much needed break from the independent gig.

Free,
Reality is not welcome here, only anarchy and rebellion.

Anyways at least you guys gave some credible argument (you as well Clue!), instead of just stirring the pot.

homer999 wrote:

Yak - read the posts. 9 hours before your most recent post, Gababa gave another example of another club doing a similiar thing.

This is a broader issue than the poor treatment you and the other parents got from Andro. This is about highlighting such treatment whenever it occurs so parents are in the know and able to go into each new year knowing that not all clubs, not all coaches and not all parents have the same ethics and we might want our kids to be taught.

Sorry, I'll try to do better. Things do get in the way of keeping up with these blasted posts.

Homer we will have to disagree on this one. This was a very specific situation. In fact I think most of us parents had thought we'd entered the twilight zone when we were initially hit with the news.

I say you can't expect to start off a post with all of the dramatics and specifics of, the club and the team situation, without getting called out on it. It was a typical rumor/hearsay posting. But then again these forums would not exist without hearsay, so I guess in hindsight you have done txsoccer a service.

I think the point was about transparency. They should have told them before they signed. A coach that you are happy with and like could have just as easily been one you hate. The point being you were stuck in a contract either way. That being said, if I was andromeda I would have done the exact same thing. Lock the contracts down first.

Experienced the ultimate soccer/Andro-related bait/switch last night.
6:45 practice scheduled, I get there and it didn't start until 6:51. Shame!

Although their pick in the white jerseys proved to be extremely transparent when sweat/water is introduced.

I see a lot of improvements in my playa since the switch, so the positives abound.

But what is Transparency?? Is Transparency when you have a so called contract where the player commits to a club but nowhere in said contract, states that the club or coach is committed to the player? Is transparency when the player commits on paper that they (parents) will pay the money in full but expect nothing in return?

Like my name says SSIAT Select Soccer is a Trip.

SSIAT wrote:But what is Transparency?? Is Transparency when you have a so called contract

It's where the layer between the player/parent and the club/coach/manager is transparent, so that you know what is going on with no surprises. As opposed to most situations, where an opaque layer of drama, mystery, and intrigue sits between these two sides.

A perfect example is the foreclosure issue. Andro could have very easily issued a detailed statement saying what is actually going on. As the "majority shareholders" of the club, the parents have a right to know. That would have defused the situation and mde this a non-issue. Andro chose not to. And I don't mean the BS filled rah-rah note that was sent out and posted here - all that said was sit back and relax and let us handle it.

Unfortunately, I don't foresee much transparency anywhere in select soccer in this lifetime.

homer999 wrote:Just heard an amazing story - a little old but too good of a story to not post.

In June an Andromeda boys team was adding lots of players (more than 10 new). On signing day in early July, all the parents were required to show up in the pouring rain at ATF to sign the docs. All signed in about 20 minutes. As soon as the last signature hit the pages, Andro announced that the coach that picked the team was quitting coaching and introduced the new coach.

Seriously guys - is open and honest so difficult in NTX soccer?

I’m sorry if I’m late to the bashing party. Is everyone talking about ANDROMEDA NAVY 97B formally MANCHESTER SC 97 Coached by NEUMANN. I’m surprised no one knew Mr. Neumann was not going to coach the team. Mr. Neumann was very forth coming with information when I asked him why he brought the team to Andromeda last spring. He told me the 2010 spring CL season would be his last season to coach. He told me he had two teams one went to Andromeda and a younger team went to the Texans.

Homer999… This is the U14 age group….correct? It’s not like it’s the first year of select. How could someone “ An Adult” not question what as to was going on with a team that was replacing 10 or so players. I would think people would ask why?? Did the person that started pitching a bitch ask any questions of players, parents, attend a practice or even talk to the coach? If they asked a question of Coach Neumann and he lied to them…I would say you have a problem. Also, I’ve seen Dane coach he appears to run a tight practice. Lastly, one nice thing out at Andromeda is if your BB can keep up, they will let you practice with other coaches and teams. You just show up…… and be involved