At the Plano Labor Day Tournament a player from the High Plains Drifters was issued two yellow cards and ejected from the match. The coach was also ejected. This happened in a seminfinal match in which the HPD team lost.

Do both of these persons have to sit out their next Classic League match?

Just curious.

Check the rules of the tournament. We had a double yellow at the last game of a recent tournament and it did not carry forward. My suggestion is that you're absolutely sure you know the answer before the next game.

I struggle to interpret these, sometimes.

I found this link...
http://www.ccsai.org/documents/AccumulatedPlayerTeamCardDefrevised3-25.pdf

and this line in the beginning...
"Tournament cards do not apply in league card accumulation, but any tournament sit-out not satisfied during the tournament will carry to the next sanctions NTSSA game, including Classic League games."

So, I think this does mean they have to sit next week.

Did you say the High Plains Drifters? I wonder if anyone from the 96 Texas Lightning team is reading this .

Kaivermor wrote:I struggle to interpret these, sometimes.

I found this link...
http://www.ccsai.org/documents/AccumulatedPlayerTeamCardDefrevised3-25.pdf

and this line in the beginning...
"Tournament cards do not apply in league card accumulation, but any tournament sit-out not satisfied during the tournament will carry to the next sanctions NTSSA game, including Classic League games."

So, I think this does mean they have to sit next week.

2 Yellows is a soft Red so the player shouldn't have to sit out. Had he received 3 yellows in the tourney then yes his next scheduled game he would have to sit out. As far as the coach he also should be missing the next game.

agree... two yellows in tournament game is "soft red".. i.e. the player leaves for the rest of that match, and that ends the penalty.. UNLESS he had a previous yellow card in the tournament... which then makes it a "sit-out" on the next match.

Coach gets straight red... looks like he is out for sure next league game.

My understanding is different:
ACCUMULATED PLAYER / TEAM CARD DEFINITION
A SOCCER YEAR INCLUDES FALL THROUGH THE END OF THE SPRING SEASON, CLASSIC LEAGUE PLAY ONLY! Cards accumulate through the entire "year" meaning both seasons. The team/players start a new penalty sheet beginning with Fall League play. Tournament cards do not apply in league card accumulation, but any tournament sit-out not satisfied during the tournament will carry to the next sanctioned NTSSA game, including Classic League games.
PLAYER CARDS
Regarding the rule on "player" accumulated cautions:
3 cautions = 1 game sit out 5 cautions = 2 game sit out 6 cautions = 1 more sit out 7 cautions = suspended from all soccer (except UIL) until a hearing is held for the player with Classic League A&D at which time they may allow the player to return to competitive (under some sort of sanction) or may be suspended for a period of time. Depends on what the cautions are for and how the player presents himself.
Regarding the rule on "player" Red Cards or Double Caution Send Offs:
“Send Offs” are defined as a straight Red Card ejection or a "send off" caused by a double caution ejection. These “send offs” count against the player as well as the teams cumulative cards.

The German is absolutely correct. "Soft reds" is high school terminology...not FIFA. Sit him out or you could forfeit your next league game.

delete

Team Discipline (“Cumulative Card System”) (North Texas Rule 3.11.2.3):
“a. Yellow Cards One game automatic suspension for the game following an individual’s third yellow card. Two game automatic suspension
for the game following such individual’s fifth yellow card of the tournament. One game automatic suspension for the game following such individual’s 6th yellow card of the tournament.
NOTE: A player/coach/assistant coach receiving a second yellow card in a single game is suspended for the balance of that game, and those two yellow cards are then added to such individual’s previous total of yellow cards for that tournament to determine whether additional game suspensions, if any, are required. Red cards issued solely as a result of a second yellow in a single game will not be added to such individual’s red card total for the tournament.b. Red Cards One game automatic suspension for the game following an individual’s first red card of the tournament. Automatic suspension, pending a hearing, from all NTSSA-sanctioned activities following such individual’s second red card of the tournament. Red cards issued solely as a result of a second yellow card in a single game will not be added to such individual’s red card total for the tournament. In cases where, during a single game, an individual receives a yellow card followed by a “straight red card” (as opposed to a red card issued solely as a result of a second yellow) both cards will be added to such individual’s respective total of red and yellow cards for the tournament and punished accordingly. If Tournament Officials determine that a red card was issued for an infraction that was not an "expulsion" offense in accordance with the FIFA Laws of the Game, such officials may reduce the red card to a yellow card and assess sanctions accordingly. The Tournament Officials may not, however, do away with the card altogether. A full report of this action must be sent to NTSSA.

According to this he clearly does not have to sit. Too bad though because it was the type of hit that results in broken legs. A very fast, very late, straight leg tackle cleats up into the front of the shin of a planted leg.It clearly deserved to be a straight red. But then again the ref had completely lost control of the game and missed many calls and cards on both squads. Truly sad as both squads played hard and should have had a competent ref for a semifinal.

my2cents wrote:Team Discipline (“Cumulative Card System”) (North Texas Rule 3.11.2.3):
“a. Yellow Cards One game automatic suspension for the game following an individual’s third yellow card. Two game automatic suspension
for the game following such individual’s fifth yellow card of the tournament. One game automatic suspension for the game following such individual’s 6th yellow card of the tournament.
NOTE: A player/coach/assistant coach receiving a second yellow card in a single game is suspended for the balance of that game, and those two yellow cards are then added to such individual’s previous total of yellow cards for that tournament to determine whether additional game suspensions, if any, are required. Red cards issued solely as a result of a second yellow in a single game will not be added to such individual’s red card total for the tournament.b. Red Cards One game automatic suspension for the game following an individual’s first red card of the tournament. Automatic suspension, pending a hearing, from all NTSSA-sanctioned activities following such individual’s second red card of the tournament. Red cards issued solely as a result of a second yellow card in a single game will not be added to such individual’s red card total for the tournament. In cases where, during a single game, an individual receives a yellow card followed by a “straight red card” (as opposed to a red card issued solely as a result of a second yellow) both cards will be added to such individual’s respective total of red and yellow cards for the tournament and punished accordingly. If Tournament Officials determine that a red card was issued for an infraction that was not an "expulsion" offense in accordance with the FIFA Laws of the Game, such officials may reduce the red card to a yellow card and assess sanctions accordingly. The Tournament Officials may not, however, do away with the card altogether. A full report of this action must be sent to NTSSA.

According to this he clearly does not have to sit. Too bad though because it was the type of hit that results in broken legs. A very fast, very late, straight leg tackle cleats up into the front of the shin of a planted leg.It clearly deserved to be a straight red. But then again the ref had completely lost control of the game and missed many calls and cards on both squads. Truly sad as both squads played hard and should have had a competent ref for a semifinal.

my2,

Doesn't 2 yellows in a single game mean a "sit out" for the next game in most professional leagues? Doesn't NTX follow FIFA rules as well? IMHO, this kid should have to sit the next league game as well as the coach.

soccerdad1 wrote:Did you say the High Plains Drifters? I wonder if anyone from the 96 Texas Lightning team is reading this .

I'm sure someone will remind them.

There are two different tracking systems in the NTSSA for cards.
The first system is for automatic sitouts. Any red (whether it is "soft" or "straight") results in an automatic one game suspension from the next sanctioned match. This is clear in the NTSSA rules and in the A&D rules. This is a USYSA, USSF, and FIFA rule.

The second system handles accumulated cards. The text copied and discussed above about multiple yellows resulting in a red card not counting towards red card totals refers to that. NTSSA has an automatic suspension from all soccer activities pending a hearing for a second red card. They only apply that to "straight" red cards because they see that as a trend of serious foul play and danger to other players.

Any team that does not sit a player who recieved any red card in the previous USYSA sanctioned match is risking a significant penalty from NTSSA.

Kraut,not positive on pros but I am pretty sure that it is three yellow cumulative results in a one game sit out. World cup is two.
South you are wrong. An ejection that is the result of two cautions in one game does result in a one game suspension. I know this for a fact as I fought and beat mid-cities on implementing this a few years ago.If in doubt look at the bylaws or call NTX.

my2cents wrote:Kraut,not positive on pros but I am pretty sure that it is three yellow cumulative results in a one game sit out. World cup is two.
South you are wrong. An ejection that is the result of two cautions in one game does not result in a one game suspension. I know this for a fact as I fought and beat mid-cities on implementing this a few years ago.If in doubt look at the bylaws or call NTX.

Left out a critical "not".

(Note this is the old info that is still in the manual and is misleading.)


From the North Texas A&D Manual:
Send offs:
The following penalties are minimums and are enforceable during the entire soccer year for a player, coach, or
assistant coach who receives:
First send off = one game suspension
Second send off = an additional two game suspension (if one or both send offs were after receipt of two
yellow cards)
Third send off = suspension pending a hearing with the NTSSA A&D Committee (could be suspended
upon second send off if both send offs were for receipt of red cards)

[

happyfeet wrote:

my2cents wrote:Kraut,not positive on pros but I am pretty sure that it is three yellow cumulative results in a one game sit out. World cup is two.
South you are wrong. An ejection that is the result of two cautions in one game does result in a one game suspension. I know this for a fact as I fought and beat mid-cities on implementing this a few years ago.If in doubt look at the bylaws or call NTX.

No...actually, you are wrong. Your 2 cents is not even worth a penny in this case. If a player in this scenario plays and it comes before the A&D committee or board, I can tell you the outcome now.

Everything I read from this indicates 2 cautions/game does not warrant a sit-out?

M2C was correct above- I was wrong.

The rules have been changed for sit-outs. There is no automatic additional game suspension for a send off resulting from a second yellow card issued in a game. This is covered in the NTSSA rules and is also discussed in the Classic league A&D pretty clearly as well. (The NTSSA A&D manual seems to have some leftover verbiage from the old system.)

Classic League:
Note: if a player receives his first two caution ejection of the year in a single game,
he is not required to sit out his next game. Under the new rule this simply means that he
has accrued two cautions and therefore is free to play the next game.

NTSSA:
NOTE: A player/coach/assistant coach receiving a second yellow card in a single game is suspended for the balance of that game, and those two yellow cards are then added to such individual’s previous total of league play yellow cards to determine whether additional game suspensions, if any, are required.

a. Yellow Cards One game automatic suspension for the game following an individual’s third league play yellow card. Two game automatic suspension for the game following such individual’s fifth league play yellow card. One game automatic suspension for the game following such individual’s sixth league play yellow card.
NOTE: A player/coach/assistant coach receiving a second yellow card in a single game is suspended for the balance of that game, and those two yellow cards are then added to such individual’s previous total of league play yellow cards to determine whether additional game suspensions, if any, are required. Red cards issued solely as a result of a second yellow in a single game will not be added to such individual’s league play red card total.
b. Red Cards One game automatic suspension for the game following an individual’s first league play red card. Automatic suspension, pending a hearing, from all NTSSA-sanctioned activities following such individual’s second league play red card. Red cards issued solely as a result of a second yellow card in a single game will not be added to such individual’s league play red card total.NOTE: In cases where, during a single game, an individual receives a yellow card followed by a “straight red card” (as opposed to a red card issued solely as a result of a second yellow) both cards will be added to such individual’s respective total of league play red and yellow cards and punished accordingly. If a Member Association’s and/or Playing League’s A & D Committee determines that a red card was issued for an infraction that was not an “expulsion” offense in accordance with the FIFA Laws of the Game, such A & D Committee may reduce the red card to a yellow card and assess sanctions accordingly. The Member Association or Playing League may not, however, do away with the card altogether. A full report of this action must be sent to NTSSA.

HP, it is assumed by those who wrote these and VPs of A&D that if a card i.e.the "soft red", is not added to the players total then it is not recorded as one. Why would a player sit when he is recorded for two yellows? The player has been booked for 2 cautions, the red card he is showm signifies that as a result of drawing two cautions he must leave the match. He has not been booked for a red card.He is not recorded for two yellows AND a red! I can tell you no VP of A&D would even schedule a hearing on two yellow cards in one game because that is all the game report would have recorded. There would be no red card of record. This is clearly stated in the rules.

Correct...tried to delete my comment, but you people are just too fast!

Not fast, just way too much time on our hands

Here's an idea, call your age group league commissioner and Jackie Sanford, the vice-commissioner of Appeals and Discipline, and ask the two of them. Do whatever they tell you to do and then nobody will get in trouble. Stop taking advice from people on here who don't know what they are talking about. It is a 3 min. phone call.

Or rather, call your team manager and have them do that. I think the league would prefer that.

Kaivermor wrote:Or rather, call your team manager and have them do that. I think the league would prefer that.

I agree. I thought it was a team manager asking the original question.

soccer23 wrote:Here's an idea, call your age group league commissioner and Jackie Sanford, the vice-commissioner of Appeals and Discipline, and ask the two of them. Do whatever they tell you to do and then nobody will get in trouble. Stop taking advice from people on here who don't know what they are talking about. It is a 3 min. phone call.

Gee thanks. Now I'm even more embarassed, as I am ON the board.
Actually, I got a couple of situations mixed up (I'm easily confused). I had one of my managers ask me if a kid had to sit out after a red card and I told them yes (straight red); then, I got on this thread and answered the same. Mea Culpa.

happyfeet wrote:

soccer23 wrote:Here's an idea, call your age group league commissioner and Jackie Sanford, the vice-commissioner of Appeals and Discipline, and ask the two of them. Do whatever they tell you to do and then nobody will get in trouble. Stop taking advice from people on here who don't know what they are talking about. It is a 3 min. phone call.

Gee thanks. Now I'm even more embarassed, as I am ON the board.
Actually, I got a couple of situations mixed up (I'm easily confused). I had one of my managers ask me if a kid had to sit out after a red card and I told them yes (straight red); then, I got on this thread and answered the same. Mea Culpa.

My comment was really directed at soccerkraut, not you happy.

soccer23 wrote:

happyfeet wrote:

soccer23 wrote:Here's an idea, call your age group league commissioner and Jackie Sanford, the vice-commissioner of Appeals and Discipline, and ask the two of them. Do whatever they tell you to do and then nobody will get in trouble. Stop taking advice from people on here who don't know what they are talking about. It is a 3 min. phone call.

Gee thanks. Now I'm even more embarassed, as I am ON the board.
Actually, I got a couple of situations mixed up (I'm easily confused). I had one of my managers ask me if a kid had to sit out after a red card and I told them yes (straight red); then, I got on this thread and answered the same. Mea Culpa.

My comment was really directed at soccerkraut, not you happy.

My wrist has been officially slapped. I will no longer try to open general discussions on this FORUM. Should I go burn some books now?