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King Tut 2017

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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by TayJ6 on 7/13/2017, 10:46 am


If a team plays "possession" soccer and wins, they are putting tactics and winning over skill.
If a team plays "possession" soccer and loses, they are playing the "right" way instead of worrying about winning and they will be better for it in the long run.
If a team plays 1v1 individual soccer and wins, they are just playing to win and not really learning how to play the game the "right" way.
If a team plays 1v1 individual soccer and loses, they need to be taking more skills lessons and start looking for a new coach.

It all goes hand in hand. You have to have enough skill to pull off the tactics! Playing tactically is a skill. Dominating 1v1 is a skill.
Yes, every player should be a dominating skill player that plays within the given system and only uses his skills when absolutely necessary......you know, like Mr. Miyagi and Karate!!

But seriously, they are 9 and 10 years old.

My son is out back staining the top of the fence while kicking the ball against the bottom of it.

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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by DragonStryker on 7/13/2017, 10:49 am

I'm not sure it was said that tactics were more important. Clearly without the skill, tactics are meaningless. The statement was that after u8/9, skill is the responsibility of the parent and that tactics matter.

If your team is doing 3-4 hrs of practice a week, if your boy isn't doing another 8-10 of skills work, he's never going to excel.

95% of the local coaches don't teach tactics beyond "kick it to the flag". Part of the reason is a lack of kids skilled enough to employ tactics any more advanced than that.

The top 5-10 teams shouldn't have that issue, by and large. Those boys should already have the skill base to start layering tactics on top of the substantial skill work they should already be doing.
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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by Uncleof05AP on 7/13/2017, 10:52 am

I am not sure anyone would disagree that skills trumps tactics.   You cannot be great without great skills but great tactics alone will not make you a great player.   I think most people that actually know what they are talking about (which excludes most of us on this forum) will tell you that skills should be emphasized, especially when younger.   This will become even more evident over the next few years when being bigger or faster will not matter as much.   That being said, I think DragonStryker's point is that your skills will never be great if you are relying on a North Texas coach  to develop them merely at practice; thus, they must be developed at home or by another supplement (private trainer, City Futsal, etc.).  

Now, on the other hand, I have seen coaches that develop great teams but not necessarily great players.    Their teams win, especially at a young age, but other teams catch up to them over time and once the equalizer of puberty happens.   On these teams, there probably is an over emphasis on "tactics" at a young age.   Instead of doing 1v1, 2v2, etc. drills, they spend most of the practice working on tactics.    In that case, I would rather Billy Bob play for a different team.  In the long run, I think that will be better for him, but I truly have no clue.  I am just some dude that spends too much time on a soccer board for kids.  

   Gotta go.  I need to find another common-law wife to bare my prodigy.   Obviously, based on the above posts, I started training my kin too late.

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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by DragonStryker on 7/13/2017, 10:53 am

baller07 wrote:Skills and technique must be above tactics. You cannot play like Manchester City without it. You would know that if you actually studied the game.

I have always wondered; why are KIDS in other countries as good or better than the American professional players? When it comes to skills and technique.

Then I realize, it's probably because to the American parents and coaches a successful youth team is a team that wins a lot. Even if their kids have poor skills, technique and understanding of the game. So they pick tactics over everything, since it helps win more games. And the amazing parents are happy because johnny won the games! But Johnny is below average!

Actually it's because most kids in this country do their 2-3 hours of team practice each week and that's it. If that's all you're doing, you'll never excel whether you focus on skill, technique, or tactics.

Kids in other countries live and breathe the game. That makes a difference and if your boy (metaphorically speaking) can't say the same, he'll never excel.
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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by Socceropath on 7/13/2017, 10:59 am

Every playing style is by definition a "tactic". Let's define this a step further by dividing them into the main two styles employed in NTX, Kickball and Possession. Nobody on here is downplaying the importance of skill and technique. (and if they are they should be beaten with a hot stick) Baller is 100% accurate in that you can't (successfully) play a possession style without it.

The same proponent of "tactics" on this thread are supporting a possession style. Perhaps they are not communicating that distinction.

Baller, what style are you in favor of? You seem to hold PST in high regard, and I totally agree that they have skilled, technical players. But PST in particular is the KING of kickball...it HELPS them win games not the opposite. I can't help but sit here and laugh at the thought of PST parents lamenting a loss by saying we would of won if the other team wasn't so damn good at passing the ball.

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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by DragonStryker on 7/13/2017, 11:02 am

There's also an argument to be made that the best players shouldn't seek out the best teams. That by playing on a team in the 7 to 15 range that plays against top competition they will be hodor to shoulder the success/failure of the team on their shoulders more and that will create a better player longer term. That playing on a top team allows top players to lean on teammates versus having to do it themselves all the time.  Interesting argument to be made there.


Last edited by DragonStryker on 7/13/2017, 11:21 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by 1soccermom247 on 7/13/2017, 11:07 am

Can I say something.....you guys are Hilarious lol! I just read yalls posts and just laugh and wander what the heck y'all do for a job to be able to analyze how each team is or where the players go or don't go who is good or not good or whatever! I just wanted to tell y'all that you people are just funny & interesting to listen to too.

Laughing

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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by Uncleof05AP on 7/13/2017, 11:16 am

I do not believe there is one right answer.  It probably differs for each kid.  I am, however, a proponent of DragonStryker's last post.  

Is it more important for your nine-year old to be on the "best team" or for your sixteen-year old to be a well developed player that is playing at the highest level? (In reality, in the grand scheme of things, neither is that important.)    I am not saying that he cannot be both but being the best now does not equate to being the best in six years.   At nine-years old, everyone has a son that will be the next Pulisic, but by sixteen-years old, most of us will have sons that would rather chase skirts and play X-Box (or the next generation of X-Box).

Gotta go.  I just had a car drive up to the driv-thru window.

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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by Socceropath on 7/13/2017, 11:28 am

Agree with Stryker.

Pulisic, the best all around player the US soccer system has ever produced (no it's not too early to say that), spurned offers from Philadelphia Union (sic FC Dallas) to stay with a smaller club that he could be the big fish.

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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by Socceropath on 7/13/2017, 11:44 am

TayJ6 wrote:
If a team plays "possession" soccer and wins, they are putting tactics and winning over skill.
If a team plays "possession" soccer and loses, they are playing the "right" way instead of worrying about winning and they will be better for it in the long run.
If a team plays 1v1 individual soccer and wins, they are just playing to win and not really learning how to play the game the "right" way.
If a team plays 1v1 individual soccer and loses, they need to be taking more skills lessons and start looking for a new coach.

It all goes hand in hand. You have to have enough skill to pull off the tactics! Playing tactically is a skill. Dominating 1v1 is a skill.
Yes, every player should be a dominating skill player that plays within the given system and only uses his skills when absolutely necessary......you know, like Mr. Miyagi and Karate!!


Cheers TayJ! Absolutely the most spot on post I've seen in a long time. Agree 110%.

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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by baller07 on 7/13/2017, 12:33 pm

We all have different opinions. I think the possession style is the best for kids growth, IF the players have the freedom to try things. I don't think there are teams/coaches doing that here. Not even DA. I have watched ALL U10 and U11 gold/D1 teams play two games. Please name them if you know any.

Some teams move the ball okay, but it is more of counter attack style. 2 - 5 passes and you are in front of the goal. Always attacking. Kids don't really dribble to create, VERY, VERY FEW number 10s being developed. And big problem is coaches here talk to much during games. They make the kids afraid to make mistakes. And that is bad.

Your club coach MUST teach skills at every practice until U13. Most coaches don't teach it, and don't let their players use whatever skills they learned by paying a fortune on private skills. As a result you have the MLS.

What coaches/teams in 07 age group do you know that ACTUALLY develops players? Not developing good teams. Very different.

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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by Socceropath on 7/13/2017, 12:39 pm

Aside from friendly banter about which style is best and who lives in a basement (which are extremely tough to find in NTX by the way), it's always fun to make predictions! Here goes nothing!

International-
1. Rayados- Never bet against an international team willing to travel to a non-major tourney.
2. FCD Academy - pretty sure I've heard about 10 different BBs joining their team, I'm just curious how big their roster is?!?
3. Rush- They've got plenty of ammunition to give anyone a run for their money (including FCD).
4. LP Owen- Hadn't heard of any defections, but regardless they're overmatched against the top 3.
5. FCD Youth- Landing a goalie from Wichita Falls won't be enough to hang with the big boys.

Plat A-
1. Texans Red- Will be challenged by McKinney
2. Solar McKinney- Hasn't yet gelled since adding man-child forward, but its only a matter of time
3. Texans Dallas- Too much turnover to know what to expect.
4. FC Legends- Kickball style without the talent that PST and Elite have doesn't cut it against top 5-7
teams
5-6 FCD ETX/FCD Blue - Only thing getting in the way of a win is that they don't play each other. (If they did I would have taken ETX)

Plat B-
1. Elite- Supercopa Bronze Champ has too much firepower.
2. Solar Kennington- Has just enough to hold off Allegiance (for now)
3. Allegiance-Play on the field is starting to live up to some of the hype
4. Fever United-Underrated team, can hang with the bottom of D1.
5. NTX Celtic-Improving but not the same in the same class as the top 3
6. Ayses- 100+ heat index doesn't bode well for reliance on 1 player

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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by TayJ6 on 7/13/2017, 12:54 pm

There are several intriguing games in this tourney, I may have to take a day off from work and watch a bunch of 9/10 yr old kids (that aren't mine) play a soccer tournament that doesn't even have playoffs.

...that statement would blow the mind of my 25 year old self...

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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by FCD07FAN on 7/13/2017, 2:05 pm

All y'all are a bunch of jokers. I see those Dad's that think their kid is the next Messi and I just want to punch you in the face. Only I just punched a mirror and now my hand is bleeding and I need stiches, and I'm in for seven years of bad luck.

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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by Socceroo on 7/13/2017, 2:06 pm

ON another note, the PUMA CUP tournament will have:

Based on YSR: 7, 17, 33, 45, 56, 73. Basically on par with the AVG of the 2 Gold Brackets on King TUT.

Now why in the world would they hold a separate tournament the same weekend as KT?

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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by DragonStryker on 7/13/2017, 2:20 pm

Socceroo wrote:ON another note, the PUMA CUP tournament will have:

Based on YSR: 7, 17, 33, 45, 56, 73. Basically on par with the AVG of the 2 Gold Brackets on King TUT.

Now why in the world would they hold a separate tournament the same weekend as KT?

Teams looking for less competition (Rebels) and teams looking for time to gel after a decent amount of turnover (Martinez). The balance of the teams are largely also ran's with little to no shot at D1 so seeding for them matters far less in QT if they even attempt to qualify.
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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by Socceroo on 7/13/2017, 2:36 pm

DragonStryker wrote:
Socceroo wrote:ON another note, the PUMA CUP tournament will have:

Based on YSR: 7, 17, 33, 45, 56, 73. Basically on par with the AVG of the 2 Gold Brackets on King TUT.

Now why in the world would they hold a separate tournament the same weekend as KT?

Teams looking for less competition (Rebels) and teams looking for time to gel after a decent amount of turnover (Martinez). The balance of the teams are largely also ran's with little to no shot at D1 so seeding for them matters far less in QT if they even attempt to qualify.

I get why some teams might not want to do KT. But why would Arlington hold a tournament the same weekend as KT? Just a money grab?

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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by DragonStryker on 7/13/2017, 2:41 pm

Socceroo wrote:
DragonStryker wrote:
Socceroo wrote:ON another note, the PUMA CUP tournament will have:

Based on YSR: 7, 17, 33, 45, 56, 73. Basically on par with the AVG of the 2 Gold Brackets on King TUT.

Now why in the world would they hold a separate tournament the same weekend as KT?

Teams looking for less competition (Rebels) and teams looking for time to gel after a decent amount of turnover (Martinez). The balance of the teams are largely also ran's with little to no shot at D1 so seeding for them matters far less in QT if they even attempt to qualify.

I get why some teams might not want to do KT. But why would Arlington hold a tournament the same weekend as KT? Just a money grab?

Same reason there are multiple Labor Day and Memorial Day weekend tournaments. Lots of teams with varying price point sensitivities and competition desires.

Sure looks like the Dallas Rebels just want a trophy. Not really another team in that tournament that should really give them much of a game. Seems cheaper to just go by your kids trophies.

Funny stat, Puma registration is $50 more than King Tut. Go figure.
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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by DragonStryker on 7/14/2017, 9:11 am

All the talking stops tonight, it's game time!!

Who wins, who loses, who's improved, who's slipped, hopefully we'll have some answers this weekend.  Going to be nice to see the roster movement stop and have some consistency in opponents.

Intl
I'm not betting against FCD Academy even with the team from Mexico making the trip to DFW though I could easily be wrong on this one.  I think the more interesting bet is whether FCD Youth will score a goal or hold any of their opponents to less than 3 goals a game (I think even Owen puts in 3 against them).  Almost feel bad for that team being thrown to the wolves, really feels like they are in over their heads in this bracket as they haven't faced any competition at this level that I've seen.

Plat A
PST/McKinney battle for tops in the group.  Suspect this comes down to how well McKinney replaces their lost scoring threat and how well that scoring threat integrates into PST (based on what we learned in this thread).  My gut tells me he doesn't integrate as well as expected.  At McKinney, he had a supporting squad using ball movement to create scoring opportunities, at PST, it's going to largely be on his shoulders to secure a long ball and create.  Some make that transition seamlessly, some don't.  Will say a lot about this young man's game, he integrates seamlessly and scores at a high rate, I'd rank him as one of the top forwards in the age group presently.  Though I'm not sure he'll score as often but it'll definitely Hodor the young man to improve his game.  Bet this would be a fun game to watch actually.

Plat B
Kennington managed a tie against Elite the last time they played and was heading to a win late in the game as time ran out, though early in that game Elite was crushing Kennington.  This bracket comes down to who shows up.  Does the Elite squad from early in that game crush Kennington or does the Kennington squad from the 2nd half come in and completely control Elite.  I'd wager it's a close game, winner takes the bracket.  Weird bracket with 6 teams, Kennington really controls since they play both Elite and Allegiance.   They play well, they win the bracket outright.  They don't, I predict an Elite/Allegiance tie at the top.  As typical, Kennington could go 4-0 or 1-3, inconsistency seems their hallmark of late.  Elite and Allegiance seem to be much more consistent in their play of late.

Gold
Not even going to venture a guess.  Suspect McKinney's 2nd team plays well.  Volkan would've been my pick but if they have an injury, that could be an issue for them given their style of play (depending on who's hurt).

Silver
I'm going to go out on a limb and pick FCD West Red.  Why?  I like their coach.  Good young coach that's trying to the right things.  

Bronze
Literally no clue.  Haven't seen any of these teams play anyone in the past year plus.
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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by ScottyTX on 7/14/2017, 11:23 am

Almost feel bad for that team being thrown to the wolves

I think that ETX and Blue got thrown to the wolves, but you could make a case for Youth as well. And it's an FC Dallas run tournament of all things..

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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by TXSoccerBall on 7/14/2017, 11:38 am

For QT seeding...the org could be thinking that loosing games to top teams is better than risking losses to equal or lesser opponents.

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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by Socceropath on 7/14/2017, 12:11 pm

Let's be honest...FCD is going to get all the help they need with the seeding committee.

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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by Luv08 on 7/14/2017, 6:58 pm

FCD beats Mexico 3-2

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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by Frisco5 on 7/14/2017, 10:05 pm

Kennington loses to Allegiance 1-2 . (Kennington was chasing game throughout)
Rush beats FCD Blue 1-0 . (FCD Blue is playing above their head. Could be a D2 team. )
Volkan beats Tigres 8-1 . (Could have been worse. Looks like Volkan doesn't have subs? Not sure whats happening there)

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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by Socceropath on 7/14/2017, 11:09 pm

Looks like only real surprise day 1 was Ayses over Elite 1-0. Allegiance v Kennington was pick 'em. Everything else played to form.

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Re: King Tut 2017

Post by baller07 on 7/14/2017, 11:20 pm

Surprised by Kennington's performance. Allegiance controlled the game until the last few minutes. New center back is solid, old center back didn't look good playing center mid.

Fever looked like the better team vs Celtic. Should be able to beat allegiance. #9 is legit.

Why is Volkan playing against Silver teams?

Looks like Legends might be playing in the wrong bracket.

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Re: King Tut 2017

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