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Elephant in the Room

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Re: Elephant in the Room

Post by bueler13 on 8/7/2017, 10:44 pm

First off we had one guest player for two tournaments and he was a very good player.  He decided to stay with his team that is ten minutes away plus he has played with them for a while.  Loyalty wins out plus distance of practice. I can tell you my son could of gone to one of the big three along with another one of our players. We had an opportunity of possibly playing up with the DA depending on how we acclimated, etc...  We decided out of loyalty to our team we have been with for five years to stay and try and qualify for D1.  It didn't happen and yes I questioned by decision briefly, but in the end it is still the right decision to stay.  We have great practices, my son comes home excited about what they did in practice and he still has freedom to play other sports.  Guys and Gals this is tough to decide what is best for YOUR kid but as I said earlier the parents put too much pressure and we learn from our mistakes.  DA will be there for the good players no matter what age they are.  I am a high school coach, club coach and a rec coach.  I tell all of my high school players that if they want to do DA they have to do what is best for them, but DA is a business and a professional commitment that your whole family has to be in for. I have an older son and a younger son and this year was not the right year for us.  Understand North Texas soccer is the one of the most competitive organizations in the US where a lot of the teams 2-15 would be the top team in another state. It is not the end of the world and we all need to get better on the sidelines, what is important for now and it is not the end of the world in D2 because someone has a plan and we are just along for the ride.

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Re: Elephant in the Room

Post by Bears on 8/8/2017, 5:57 am

bueler13 wrote: Our team did not add any players, which we tried through guess players.

quote="bueler13"] First off we had one guest player for two tournaments and he was a very good player.  He decided to stay with his team that is ten minutes away plus he has played with them for a while.  Loyalty wins out plus distance of practice. [/quote]

I'm not familiar with Rush's roster pre- or post- signing for select. To be clear, I wasn't attempting to make any accusations or cast aspersions. I was simply relying upon the statement you made in your first post. I hope I didn't offend you.

Thank you for taking the time to provide such a complete response to my question about DA. I visit this board, in part, to gather information. I think how you frame DA for your students is a very helpful way to look at it.


Last edited by Bears on 8/8/2017, 7:55 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Elephant in the Room

Post by bueler13 on 8/8/2017, 7:43 am

DA is a professional type setting that many do not understand the commitment level.  What happens is after the first year the top players play and the ones at the end of the bench sit. The ones at the end of the bench go back to a D1 or D2 team to get playing time and then DA feels the back of the roster.  Each player has to play 25% of the time and usually their time comes in tournaments where college coaches are at.  Even if your kid is elite now does not mean he will be elite later.  They are looking for athletes at the young age but try to develop their brain.  If they do not develop mentally those are the ones at the end of the bench when they get older.  I understand for some it is DA or bust however ask your self what is best for your kid, really take a step back and look at it all.  Does your kid after a bad loss go out and just have fun playing soccer afterwards? Are you beating them down after a game on what they did wrong? Does he cry going to practice/games or afterwards? The reason DA was developed is to improve soccer overall in the US and it is starting to work if you look at the U20 teams and below but really DA is not for all.  If you think your son can do it then it is just a year of his life if he does not enjoy it but that can change his whole outlook on the game.  I can tell you all good players will be seen somehow some way for the most part but let them enjoy the game.

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Re: Elephant in the Room

Post by JogaBonitoTX on 8/13/2017, 3:31 pm

Back to Socceropath's original question - "What is their path to DA?" and DragonStryker's answer that put numbers around each of the three club's potential spots - "FCD... Where are the other 6 to 8 coming from?... Solar... 8 to 10... Texans... 8-10...."

I like DragonStryker's numbers approach and responded with some thoughts earlier.

Now I have the actual numbers from the 06's that I thought I would share.  

Solar - Added 4 or 5 from outside the club. One had been training with Solar but not on a team, hence the 4 or 5.
Four of the five were 07's (3 of those from FCD).
One was an 06 from FCD.
1 of 5 from the 06 age group, 5/5 from DFW, 0/5 from outside the big 3 clubs.

FCD - Added 5 from outside the club.
2 from Solar, 1 from PST/Texans, 2 from outside of DFW.
One of the Solar players played up a year in D1.
2/5 from the age group from DFW, 3/5 from DFW, 2/5 from outside of the big 3 clubs, but not from DFW.

Texans - Added 2 from outside the club.
1 from FCD, 1 from Solar.
Solar player played up a year in D1.
1/2 from the age group, 2/2 from DFW, 0/2 from outside the big 3 clubs.

So the 3 clubs added a total of 4 players from the 06 age group from DFW. 3 of the 4 were from D1, 1 was from D2 (a team that had been a good 07 team before the age pure changes and did not make 06 D1).  

So... "What is their path to DA?" And where do the 6, 8, or 10 that DragonStryker speculated on come from?

First... Are the 06 numbers even relevant for the 07 group? Do they tell us anything? Maybe this was a bizarre year and next year the number of slots from outside the clubs will be much higher? Or maybe they are meaningful and clubs really are leaning heavily towards their own players?

Whatever happens next year, it seems "Route 1" is to be at one of the big 3 clubs. Having had front row seats this year, I was very surprised how many slots were filled from within the club. Was the bar set at a different height for players within the club? Perhaps. Bottom line, if you're at one of the big three, your odds of being on the path to DA seem higher.  

Even if the numbers are off by magnitudes, are there any lessons in how folks got there this year?

4 of 12 came from the younger age group, and 2 of the 12 came from out of DFW. So half the additions came via routes that would not be open to players in the age group from DFW. Good information, but not helping!  

2 of the 12 came from doing well playing a year up. Perhaps your club still has this opportunity? Could your son do well on a good 06 D1 team? This could be a good path. Maybe a very good path.

4 of 12 were from the age group and in DFW. This would include players that were recruited and players that showed well in open tryouts. Which begs the question, just how rare was the player from the age group in DFW who made the team via open tryouts? By numbers, this route is the one open to the largest number of potential players. Has your son already played for one of the DA coaches? Still have a good relationship?  Very Happy  

If the open tryout option is your best bet, how can you maximize your son's exposure to those coaches and get them out to tryouts early and often? Can you get released by your coach to attend some early tryouts, practices, or pool training? (Solar started pool training in the winter and they were open all spring)

What else can your son do to increase his odds?

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Re: Elephant in the Room

Post by Socceroo on 8/13/2017, 6:09 pm

Great points Joga. very small number of spots available for players outside the clubs. That is the norm. FCD will eventually change this at U14. But for now, being at those clubs early, matter. Specially if one of your age groups coaches take over the DA coaching spot. I cant stress enough how important that is. Just because TEAM A from Club 1 is the best team in the club, it doesn't mean most of their players will go to DA. Specially if the DA coach is not the coach from TEAM A. That is just how it goes.

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Re: Elephant in the Room

Post by bueler13 on 8/13/2017, 9:13 pm

It doesnt matter because as the kids get older they lose focus so is it important juat tonsay DA? Or do you want your kid to have the passion at 14, 15, 16 and say I want more than classic 1 or 2 and he has the ability tonplay at a higher level? Good players will be found whether it is now or at 14 and up.

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Re: Elephant in the Room

Post by Socceroo on 8/13/2017, 10:44 pm

Very true Bueler. But the fact remains that very few players here will make it to a higher level. By higher level I mean pros. If you are a fenomenal player in the DFW area, it doesn't matter where you play (DA, D1, D2, PPL, Rec...), FCD will eventually find you at 14,15 or 16. And if you are truly special, you will have a shot at maybe making it as a pro. But if you are like the avg DA or D1/D2 player, all you are looking for is a shot at College. And simply by being a part of a DA team, will get you a ton more exposure to College coaches than by simply playing Classic D1 or D2. And when I say College I don't really mean a full scholarship. Scholarships for men's soccer is tough to come by, 9.9 available per team in D1. Teams bring in an average 4-5 players per year, with 20 to 24 per roster...do the math....You will be lucky to get books paid for....On another note, if you are a good (but not great) student, even an invite as a preferred walk on will get you in at a lower academic standards than the regular student population....Case in point is my nephew a few years ago. Played at a DA club in the west coast. Not a great SAT score and just a 3.1 GPA. He got accepted to Duke and Virginia with just Books as a scholarship. He would have never got in those schools with his grades and SAT scores if it wasn't for the "minimal" soccer scholarship....

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Re: Elephant in the Room

Post by just-a-dad on 8/14/2017, 9:08 am

Socceroo- that is why I don't understand this obsession of trying to get into DA and having kids play 4-5 times per week. the chances of getting a scholarship or playing any professional level is miniscule. if a kid is really that good, you will know it when you see it. talent will get found. I'm sure there are plenty of good 07 players out there, but I have yet to see one that screams future professional soccer player. I think we should be more worried about burning all of these kids out and not having good competition when they get closer to high school. that is probably the time when you will see some break away from the pack. think all of this obsession takes any joy out of it. hearing parents scream the way they do at games is just sad. best case scenario is that your kid gets a partial scholarship and then plays in an over 30 league after work that is slightly competitive. push them to do their school work.

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Re: Elephant in the Room

Post by Number13 on 8/14/2017, 9:15 am

I think you are underestimating the appeal of your kid getting free books at Duke and then you getting to pay the other $260k for them to graduate with a degree in Public Policy Analysis.   That's called "winning".  

Plus, they won't just play O30 soccer, they will KICKASS in O30 soccer.  With you in the stands.  Yelling at them to "go".  

The future is bright.
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Re: Elephant in the Room

Post by just-a-dad on 8/14/2017, 9:32 am

can we berate the referees at over 30 games? can we still give them pep talks on the way?

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Re: Elephant in the Room

Post by Uncleof05AP on 8/14/2017, 9:59 am

Number13 wrote:I think you are underestimating the appeal of your kid getting free books at Duke and then you getting to pay the other $260k for them to graduate with a degree in Public Policy Analysis.   That's called "winning".  

Plus, they won't just play O30 soccer, they will KICKASS in O30 soccer.  With you in the stands.  Yelling at them to "go".  

The future is bright.

Pure genius.

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Re: Elephant in the Room

Post by Uncleof05AP on 8/14/2017, 10:03 am

just-a-dad wrote:can we berate the referees at over 30 games? can we still give them pep talks on the way?

Yes, of course you can still berate them. How else will the referees know about all the missed handballs and offside calls? Plus, even at 30, I know Billy Bob will need me there to let him know to "clear it" and "shoot."

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Re: Elephant in the Room

Post by JogaBonitoTX on 8/14/2017, 10:06 am

Classic - time to start an O-30 section on the forum!

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Re: Elephant in the Room

Post by Socceroo on 8/14/2017, 10:13 am

Number13 wrote:I think you are underestimating the appeal of your kid getting free books at Duke and then you getting to pay the other $260k for them to graduate with a degree in Public Policy Analysis.   That's called "winning".  

I guess that depends on the income level of the parents and the kids goal post college.....Some kids are ok working at McDonalds or as babysitters after college.... Nephew studied Economics at Duke....Parents put enough nest egg together over the years to cover a huge % of the 4 yr cost. That left him with $30k in federal Student Loans.....   Not sure about you, but I would prefer BB to get an Economics degree at Duke (where he only got in because of a sport), than get an Economics degree at Tarrant County Community College or at your local BFE "Now Enrolling" college and not spend a dime on tuition....But yes, that is not for everyone. This kid's goal had nothing to do with Soccer....Soccer was just a tool to compensate for a not so good academic record.


Last edited by Socceroo on 8/14/2017, 10:36 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Elephant in the Room

Post by just-a-dad on 8/14/2017, 10:25 am

Tarrant County has come a long way since you were in school and their over 30 leagues is full of DA and ECNL kids.

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Re: Elephant in the Room

Post by Socceroo on 8/14/2017, 10:27 am

Very Happy

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Re: Elephant in the Room

Post by earbucket on 8/14/2017, 11:07 am

When a coed game started after his indoor game, I started to joke with my kid about his future. Then I saw two elderly parents yelling at their daughter to get over the ball and the joke was no longer on my kid.

DA is not for everybody. Yelling parents are disciplined and suspended from games. My favorite is when the coach tells the parents to shut up or they will pull their kid out of the game.



And college soccer opportunities are available, but it may not be at the elite D1 level.


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Re: Elephant in the Room

Post by bueler13 on 8/14/2017, 11:15 am

I think you guys forget the open division right out of college when they can burn off the previous nights fun. Why go straight to o30?

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Re: Elephant in the Room

Post by Socceroo on 8/14/2017, 11:25 am

earbucket wrote:When a coed game started after his indoor game, I started to joke with my kid about his future.  Then I saw two elderly parents yelling at their daughter to get over the ball and the joke was no longer on my kid.

DA is not for everybody.  Yelling parents are disciplined and suspended from games.  My favorite is when the coach tells the parents to shut up or they will pull their kid out of the game.  

I wish parents were banned from games....maybe an alternative would be to build a sound proof glass dome where parents can watch the game from. Or provide seats with a Taser mechanism where if a parent yells above a certain db level, it would automatically trigger a 20 milliamp shock on your butt. Then I would love to be present at that Liverpool - FCD game at the end of the month....   :-)

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Re: Elephant in the Room

Post by Socceropath on 8/14/2017, 12:30 pm

Socceroo wrote:
earbucket wrote:When a coed game started after his indoor game, I started to joke with my kid about his future.  Then I saw two elderly parents yelling at their daughter to get over the ball and the joke was no longer on my kid.

DA is not for everybody.  Yelling parents are disciplined and suspended from games.  My favorite is when the coach tells the parents to shut up or they will pull their kid out of the game.  

I wish parents were banned from games....maybe an alternative would be to build a sound proof glass dome where parents can watch the game from. Or provide seats with a Taser mechanism where if a parent yells above a certain db level, it would automatically trigger a 20 milliamp shock on your butt. Then I would love to be present at that Liverpool - FCD game at the end of the month....   :-)

cheers cheers cheers


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Re: Elephant in the Room

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