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WTF...

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Re: WTF...

Post by bigtex75081 on 10/12/2017, 7:25 am

bigtex75081 wrote:
davito wrote:So what would a better NTX Select system look like?

Here are some nice in theory ideas for starters.....

Plenty of affordable options free or less than $800 per year (inc. uniform)
Rosters capped at 16 for 11v11
Team practices 2x per week
Skills/scrimmage sessions 2x per week (mixed age groups) large group overseen by a coach but smaller groups organized by older players
Coach and an assistant coach per team for practices
Goalkeeper coaching at every practice & skills session
2hr long practices & skills/scrimmage sessions

Maximum of 5 substitutions per game
No re-entry
Minimum 25% start rule
Maximum 1 game per day
Tournaments over 2 weekends with loser brackets so everyone gets 4 games

Small sided games until U13
Smaller roster caps (7v7 = 11, 9v9 = 13)
No standings
Smaller pitches and goals
No punting
Build out of the back
1.5hr long practices at younger ages
6 month contracts (nobody should be stuck for a year with a club)

DA for the best of the best.

Still not sure how we incentivize coaches to develop players instead of recruiting winning teams. Suspect
Or how we encourage BSF players to be played up. affraid
Or how we discourage kickball. (2 points for a goal after 5 passes..????) scratch
Extend the 9v9 format all the way to u15.  Cap the roster for that format to 14 players max.
I'm sure all the DA parents will throw up on this idea but... I think a program like ODP should automatically get the opportunity to compete in any league they choose, including the DA league.  ODP should get an automatic free pass to assign a team to whatever league is most competitive at the time.  

ODP is (at least in theory) an excellent path for identifying those unheralded players from smaller clubs.  ODP creates opportunities for lots of kids that simply don't have access to the giant clubs that support DA.

The exclusivity of DA only benefits the kids that could afford to be in those giant clubs early on.  DA is monopolized by a select few privately-owned clubs that use the promise of DA as a way to wrangle even more money out of many parents.

Why shouldn't ODP have access to those leagues?  This will make ODP much more relevant for today's marketplace and it will help their recruiting significantly.  It will add a new type of competition for the DA teams.  

This proposal would open an extra opportunity to compete at a higher level, that will ultimately benefit ALL the kids in the youth soccer community.  So even if you're in one DA program, but in some way your BB is unhappy, he'll now have another path to take instead of being locked into a very few options.

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Re: WTF...

Post by 04Soccerdad on 10/12/2017, 8:04 am

R1 wrote:Its not youth soccer thats the problem.  Its the pro system.  The pro teams need a MLS 2, and MLS 3 (minor league teams attached to the pro teams) to develop players who are 18-25 yrs of age who "may" become a great pro, but needs some polishing.  Much like baseball and hockey.  Some people dont bloom until their mid-20s (Michael Johnson).  MLS is not developing pro US players.  18 to 23 year old players who cant make a MLS squad, but are close, or maybe they are good enough, but they arent getting a good enough look, they need a format to develop that final step.

Develop more of your US pro prospects, and you will find more great players that will make the national team a better team.

There is a "minor" league system. It's called USL. FC Dallas has OKC Energy FC.

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Re: WTF...

Post by Riquelme Rises on 10/12/2017, 8:04 am

Sprint wrote:I think more of this should fall on the players that were on the field last night than what most are saying.  Everyone wants to blame pay to play, coaches, the system etc, but how about the guys on the field were just trash last night, save Pulisic.  If my kid played like that on a Saturday at Richland College there would be no stopping at Chick Fil a for ice cream on the way home.  

The system definitely needs changing, selling players would be nice for youth clubs but then you have Federal Labor laws to deal with. MLS clubs can already sell players and doesn't seem like many European clubs are breaking the bank to buy MLS American kids.  So the incentive to develop players is already here at least for MLS clubs and it has not done much.

Pay to play is not going anywhere but is not as big a problem as some think. If you are good youth player, you can find places to play for free in North Texas.  Lots of them and with some good coaches on DA level teams.  

I am not convinced a great coach is anything more than a guy that has a decent knowledge of the game and some really good players while he will be an average coach if he has average players. Its about the players...But yes, coaching can get better.

Scouting needs to reach further in more areas but the US is so big it can't get everywhere, just not doable.  If your kid is  star, get him to a big city and put all your chips in the soccer basket. Kids move from all over to Frisco in the hopes of soccer future for FCD and take the risk everyday.  You can't expect US soccer to turn over every rock in BFE to find the one kid that can play lights out in Marfa.  

The players on the US soccer team laid a huge egg last night, and most of qualifying.  They should be held accountable and dismissed from US soccer duty for any future call ups, save Pulisic.  




But these are the players that are there via politics. Altidore was never good enough, Dempsey was better when he played in EPL but came to MLS and got fat. The other players like Bradley are there because of political connections. The players are to blame yes, but the system should take the most blame because there are players that are better but do not have the political connections and are left out. Once again I think it is down right funny!!!!
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Re: WTF...

Post by Riquelme Rises on 10/12/2017, 8:13 am

Number13 wrote:
Riquelme Rises wrote:

Perfect example of our broken system, look at U17 BNT, Blaine Ferri is there and many of us in NTX have seen him play and he is no world beater nor would he have made it on some of the top teams in NTX but his daddy has long standing connections with USA bureaucracy and that is how he is there. Nothing personal with the kid or dad its just that is how all this works!

Haha.  Nothing personal, 17-yr old kid.  You just suck and your daddy bought your way onto the team.  But nothing personal.   Very Happy

I heard he got cut from a few CL teams, so he had to play up in DA instead, and from there he got scooped right up to start for the U17 team.   For all I know his dad bribed Gulati to get him on the team past all the other political BS, but everybody I know says he appears to be Jesus Christ come down amongst us on the soccer pitch relative to the local proles his age.  Which is probably what it takes if you are going to be an average USNT player.  

I'm sure if folks want to name names there are, IMO, a lot more glaring cases of politics.  But to each his own.  

We all have biases.   I seriously doubt rich white kids are the best place to be looking for a team of world class players, but everything is on a case-by-case basis.   There is very little evidence that any demographic here is capable of producing world class players.



Daddy has the connections and that does not mean he has to bribe anyone its about who you know. If you know the right people then you get the opportunities others can only dream of. But he is one example of many that cause the USMNT at each age level to falter. It has nothing to do with this kid being WHITE as you say, it has all to do with political connections. He is an average player at best but then again so is the USMNT. There are many players that are better but do not get the opportunities that these connected players have. Maybe US Scouts should come to a few inner city league games or maybe watch some local semi-pro teams etc. to find real talent.
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Re: WTF...

Post by Socceroo on 10/12/2017, 9:58 am

Guys, the whole excuse of not enough inner city kids playing or not having the opportunity to play is NOT the reason why US Soccer is in the state it is today.

Yes, there is no question US Soccer could benefit from making soccer more available to inner city kids, but c'mon....IF ICELAND can make it WITHOUT ANY inner city kids, then a country with Millions and Millions of kids playing (regardless of they are all middle class kids) should be able to find and develop a great starting XI. Lets get real here....there are enough players in this country that you should in theory be able to come up with 2 or 3 teams of "MIddle Class" kids that can play the game...

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Re: WTF...

Post by bigtex75081 on 10/12/2017, 10:13 am

Socceroo wrote:Guys, the whole excuse of not enough inner city kids playing or not having the opportunity to play is NOT the reason why US Soccer is in the state it is today.

Yes, there is no question US Soccer could benefit from making soccer more available to inner city kids, but c'mon....IF ICELAND can make it WITHOUT ANY inner city kids, then a country with Millions and Millions of kids playing (regardless of they are all middle class kids) should be able to find and develop a great starting XI. Lets get real here....there are enough players in this country that you should in theory be able to come up with 2 or 3 teams of "MIddle Class" kids that can play the game...
Volume is not equivalent to greatness.  By your logic, both China and India should simply be handing the World Cup's Jules Rimet trophy back-and-forth every 4 years.

Estimates from the U.S. Census Bureau put China in the lead with 1.34 billion residents, followed by India with 1.19 billion. The United States is a distant third with 311.1 million people.

Volume helps but ultimately it's about the amount of time invested AND the quality of the time.

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Re: WTF...

Post by Sprint on 10/12/2017, 10:26 am

Riquelme Rises wrote:
Sprint wrote:I think more of this should fall on the players that were on the field last night than what most are saying.  Everyone wants to blame pay to play, coaches, the system etc, but how about the guys on the field were just trash last night, save Pulisic.  If my kid played like that on a Saturday at Richland College there would be no stopping at Chick Fil a for ice cream on the way home.  

The system definitely needs changing, selling players would be nice for youth clubs but then you have Federal Labor laws to deal with. MLS clubs can already sell players and doesn't seem like many European clubs are breaking the bank to buy MLS American kids.  So the incentive to develop players is already here at least for MLS clubs and it has not done much.

Pay to play is not going anywhere but is not as big a problem as some think. If you are good youth player, you can find places to play for free in North Texas.  Lots of them and with some good coaches on DA level teams.  

I am not convinced a great coach is anything more than a guy that has a decent knowledge of the game and some really good players while he will be an average coach if he has average players. Its about the players...But yes, coaching can get better.

Scouting needs to reach further in more areas but the US is so big it can't get everywhere, just not doable.  If your kid is  star, get him to a big city and put all your chips in the soccer basket. Kids move from all over to Frisco in the hopes of soccer future for FCD and take the risk everyday.  You can't expect US soccer to turn over every rock in BFE to find the one kid that can play lights out in Marfa.  

The players on the US soccer team laid a huge egg last night, and most of qualifying.  They should be held accountable and dismissed from US soccer duty for any future call ups, save Pulisic.  




But these are the players that are there via politics. Altidore was never good enough, Dempsey was better when he played in EPL but came to MLS and got fat. The other players like Bradley are there because of political connections. The players are to blame yes, but the system should take the most blame because there are players that are better but do not have the political connections and are left out. Once again I think it is down right funny!!!!

There's politics in everything but the team on the field for the US should have been good enough to beat the team on the field for T&T.  We were not outmatched, we got outplayed, badly.  That falls squarely on the players.  Most of the T&T team plays either in the T&T pro league ( probably much like a mens rec league in DFW) or are hanging on to a USL team in the US or a few are on MLS rosters.  That's not a soccer powerhouse.  The US has players form Bundesliga and EPL on the roster.  It should have been a foregone conclusion...particularly knowing the stakes.  

The US players, however they got there, blew it and should all be dismissed, with few exceptions.  

The system does need revamping, but the other night falls squarely on those guys for walking around, not caring and just being overall terrible.

Michael Bradley, however he got on the team, is better than anyone from T&T. Dempsey is miles better than anyone from T&T. T&T will never have a player like Pulisic in the history of the Country. We were better at probably every position on the field, save Omar Gonzalez and Beasler who have no business being near a soccer field ever again.

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Re: WTF...

Post by 1soccermom247 on 10/12/2017, 10:47 am

US has football, baseball, basketball, race car driving etc. compared to most of the other countries in which all of those are BIG over here and kids have to choose which one to do full time & Soccer has not been the one they choose to work solely on but Soccer is just starting the past 10-15 yrs becoming a big thing. Hopefully in the next 10-15yrs we will be like Germany or England, etc 1 day. Just my 2 cents!


Last edited by 1soccermom247 on 10/12/2017, 1:19 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Needed to add a line I left out)

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Re: WTF...

Post by Riquelme Rises on 10/12/2017, 10:51 am

Socceroo wrote:Guys, the whole excuse of not enough inner city kids playing or not having the opportunity to play is NOT the reason why US Soccer is in the state it is today.

Yes, there is no question US Soccer could benefit from making soccer more available to inner city kids, but c'mon....IF ICELAND can make it WITHOUT ANY inner city kids, then a country with Millions and Millions of kids playing (regardless of they are all middle class kids) should be able to find and develop a great starting XI. Lets get real here....there are enough players in this country that you should in theory be able to come up with 2 or 3 teams of "MIddle Class" kids that can play the game...


Delusional
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Re: WTF...

Post by earbucket on 10/12/2017, 11:00 am

This is a positive step: "Last May, Dallas ISD, the 14th-largest public school district in the United States, broke ground and held the nation’s first public school Futsal Tournament. This district-wide event paved way for futsal’s integration with education."

"This year, Onesimo Hernandez Elementary School was one of two elementary schools invited to participate in the World Futsal Championships. To make it to Orlando, the team raised over $5,000 and secured a sponsorship from Southwest Airlines."




DISD Futsal

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Re: WTF...

Post by Riquelme Rises on 10/12/2017, 11:04 am

Sprint wrote:
Riquelme Rises wrote:
Sprint wrote:I think more of this should fall on the players that were on the field last night than what most are saying.  Everyone wants to blame pay to play, coaches, the system etc, but how about the guys on the field were just trash last night, save Pulisic.  If my kid played like that on a Saturday at Richland College there would be no stopping at Chick Fil a for ice cream on the way home.  

The system definitely needs changing, selling players would be nice for youth clubs but then you have Federal Labor laws to deal with. MLS clubs can already sell players and doesn't seem like many European clubs are breaking the bank to buy MLS American kids.  So the incentive to develop players is already here at least for MLS clubs and it has not done much.

Pay to play is not going anywhere but is not as big a problem as some think. If you are good youth player, you can find places to play for free in North Texas.  Lots of them and with some good coaches on DA level teams.  

I am not convinced a great coach is anything more than a guy that has a decent knowledge of the game and some really good players while he will be an average coach if he has average players. Its about the players...But yes, coaching can get better.

Scouting needs to reach further in more areas but the US is so big it can't get everywhere, just not doable.  If your kid is  star, get him to a big city and put all your chips in the soccer basket. Kids move from all over to Frisco in the hopes of soccer future for FCD and take the risk everyday.  You can't expect US soccer to turn over every rock in BFE to find the one kid that can play lights out in Marfa.  

The players on the US soccer team laid a huge egg last night, and most of qualifying.  They should be held accountable and dismissed from US soccer duty for any future call ups, save Pulisic.  




But these are the players that are there via politics. Altidore was never good enough, Dempsey was better when he played in EPL but came to MLS and got fat. The other players like Bradley are there because of political connections. The players are to blame yes, but the system should take the most blame because there are players that are better but do not have the political connections and are left out. Once again I think it is down right funny!!!!

There's politics in everything but the team on the field for the US should have been good enough to beat the team on the field for T&T.  We were not outmatched, we got outplayed, badly.  That falls squarely on the players.  Most of the T&T team plays either in the T&T pro league ( probably much like a mens rec league in DFW) or are hanging on to a USL team in the US or a few are on MLS rosters.  That's not a soccer powerhouse.  The US has players form Bundesliga and EPL on the roster.  It should have been a foregone conclusion...particularly knowing the stakes.  

The US players, however they got there, blew it and should all be dismissed, with few exceptions.  

The system does need revamping, but the other night falls squarely on those guys for walking around, not caring and just being overall terrible.

Michael Bradley, however he got on the team, is better than anyone from T&T.  Dempsey is miles better than anyone from T&T.  T&T will never have a player like Pulisic in the history of the Country.  We were better at probably every position on the field, save Omar Gonzalez and Beasler who have no business being near a soccer field ever again.





You assume all those T&T players are like rec players here in USA. You pump up our players too much. Altidore sucked in EPL and Dempsey is old and fat since he moved to MLS (rec league in the eyes of the rest of the world). Bradley better than T&T players? Then why did he not display this awesome talent? You really think he is the BEST in USA? And you bring up Pulisic as if he has done anything of merit. He is a bench player in Germany, now he may develop into a top player but right now is average compared to top players in Europe and South America. Don't hate on T&T players, they beat USA fair and square. It is funny though that your commentary reflects the tendency of USA fans to think that USA Soccer is sooooooo freakin good but to the world its a joke at best. USA is not entitled to be in Mundial (that is what the WC is called by the way). I make the point again....it is hilarious USA is out of Mundial!!
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Re: WTF...

Post by Sprint on 10/12/2017, 11:18 am

Riquelme Rises wrote:
Sprint wrote:
Riquelme Rises wrote:
Sprint wrote:I think more of this should fall on the players that were on the field last night than what most are saying.  Everyone wants to blame pay to play, coaches, the system etc, but how about the guys on the field were just trash last night, save Pulisic.  If my kid played like that on a Saturday at Richland College there would be no stopping at Chick Fil a for ice cream on the way home.  

The system definitely needs changing, selling players would be nice for youth clubs but then you have Federal Labor laws to deal with. MLS clubs can already sell players and doesn't seem like many European clubs are breaking the bank to buy MLS American kids.  So the incentive to develop players is already here at least for MLS clubs and it has not done much.

Pay to play is not going anywhere but is not as big a problem as some think. If you are good youth player, you can find places to play for free in North Texas.  Lots of them and with some good coaches on DA level teams.  

I am not convinced a great coach is anything more than a guy that has a decent knowledge of the game and some really good players while he will be an average coach if he has average players. Its about the players...But yes, coaching can get better.

Scouting needs to reach further in more areas but the US is so big it can't get everywhere, just not doable.  If your kid is  star, get him to a big city and put all your chips in the soccer basket. Kids move from all over to Frisco in the hopes of soccer future for FCD and take the risk everyday.  You can't expect US soccer to turn over every rock in BFE to find the one kid that can play lights out in Marfa.  

The players on the US soccer team laid a huge egg last night, and most of qualifying.  They should be held accountable and dismissed from US soccer duty for any future call ups, save Pulisic.  




But these are the players that are there via politics. Altidore was never good enough, Dempsey was better when he played in EPL but came to MLS and got fat. The other players like Bradley are there because of political connections. The players are to blame yes, but the system should take the most blame because there are players that are better but do not have the political connections and are left out. Once again I think it is down right funny!!!!

There's politics in everything but the team on the field for the US should have been good enough to beat the team on the field for T&T.  We were not outmatched, we got outplayed, badly.  That falls squarely on the players.  Most of the T&T team plays either in the T&T pro league ( probably much like a mens rec league in DFW) or are hanging on to a USL team in the US or a few are on MLS rosters.  That's not a soccer powerhouse.  The US has players form Bundesliga and EPL on the roster.  It should have been a foregone conclusion...particularly knowing the stakes.  

The US players, however they got there, blew it and should all be dismissed, with few exceptions.  

The system does need revamping, but the other night falls squarely on those guys for walking around, not caring and just being overall terrible.

Michael Bradley, however he got on the team, is better than anyone from T&T.  Dempsey is miles better than anyone from T&T.  T&T will never have a player like Pulisic in the history of the Country.  We were better at probably every position on the field, save Omar Gonzalez and Beasler who have no business being near a soccer field ever again.





You assume all those T&T players are like rec players here in USA. You pump up our players too much. Altidore sucked in EPL and Dempsey is old and fat since he moved to MLS (rec league in the eyes of the rest of the world). Bradley better than T&T players? Then why did he not display this awesome talent? You really think he is the BEST in USA? And you bring up Pulisic as if he has done anything of merit. He is a bench player in Germany, now he may develop into a top player but right now is average compared to top players in Europe and South America. Don't hate on T&T players, they beat USA fair and square. It is funny though that your commentary reflects the tendency of USA fans to think that USA Soccer is sooooooo freakin good but to the world its a joke at best. USA is not entitled to be in Mundial (that is what the WC is called by the way). I make the point again....it is hilarious USA is out of Mundial!!


T&T is a joke of a national team and has qualified for the World cup once in the history of the country.  This does not mean the US is great or even good, it just means they should have beaten T&T.  

Bradley is not a very good player now, but yet better than anyone on T&T, stand by that.  He played in EPL and Serie A.  In his day, he was decent, didn't say great.  Dempsey scored 24 or so goals in the EPL for Fulham as his high water mark, that is better than anyone on T&T will ever dream of.  Even as an old fat guy( as you say) he is better than anyone on T&T.  You are simply wrong on Pulisic. He starts a lot for Dortmund, signed a new deal and is wanted by La Liga and EPL giants, at age 19.  He has done more at age 19 than anyone in the history of T&T will ever do.  Just the facts.. IF you want to make the argument T&T is just as talented as the US, good luck.  

I'm not pumping up the US, just the point they had better talent and got outplayed on the night.  If the do what they were supposed to do, they win and the sky is not falling and US soccer is making plans for Russia.

Having said the above, the US systems does need to change and Arena and Gulati should go. That has been the case for awhile and Arena was a bad hire in the first place. But I blame the guys on the field for losing to subpar talent as the reason the US is not in the World Cup. None of them should be back but Pulisic, Yedlin, and maybe a few others. They should be focusing on Weston Mckennie, Emerson Hydman, Haj Wright, Cameron Carter-Vickers, Matt Miazga, and other guys just breaking into Europe. They may lose friendlies in the next year or so, but need to start over on player selection.

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Re: WTF...

Post by Uncleof05AP on 10/12/2017, 11:29 am

RR, I usually enjoy your commentary, but at the least, please make comments supported by facts.  Borrussia Dortmund has played seven Bundesliga games this season.  Pulisic has started in six of those games and has played in all seven games.  Thus, I am not sure that I would classify him as a "bench player."   I am not saying that I disagree with some of your points, but the beasts on this board will use anything to discredit someone. Do not give them the fodder.

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Re: WTF...

Post by bigtex75081 on 10/12/2017, 11:55 am

We all seem to agree that, now we're eliminated from WC 2018, a large majority of the USMNT roster must go whether they're great players in their prime or not. With this elimination it will be 5 more years before the next WC. It's time to focus on the next generation of players. Who really cares if we lose a couple Gold Cups between now and then? It's time to focus exclusively on the player pool that's 24 years old or younger. Anyone >25 years old at this point should only be retained for mentoring purposes.

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Re: WTF...

Post by Uncleof05AP on 10/12/2017, 12:07 pm

BigTex, I would consider taking it a step further.  Maybe our focus should be on the 2020 Summer Olympics?  If that is the case, we should focus on players that will be U-23 in 2020, as well as a few players that we might use for the three over 23 exceptions.   We could then revamp with some slightly older players after the 2020 Olympics if needed.  It would at least give US soccer fans something to hope for before the 2022 World Cup.

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Re: WTF...

Post by Riquelme Rises on 10/12/2017, 12:12 pm

Uncleof05AP wrote:RR, I usually enjoy your commentary, but at the least, please make comments supported by facts.  Borrussia Dortmund has played seven Bundesliga games this season.  Pulisic has started in six of those games and has played in all seven games.  Thus, I am not sure that I would classify him as a "bench player."   I am not saying that I disagree with some of your points, but the beasts on this board will use anything to discredit someone.   Do not give them the fodder.


My point is what has he done to merit this expectation? The fact is the USA will never win a WC. If the goal is to just get there then what is the point of that. Sprint keeps bashing talent level of T&T but this is a team sport and USA got beat simple as that. He claims, he is not the only one, that USA players beat themselves. What kind of crap is that to say? Obviously the talent is not that different. I don't see why anyone would think that T&T players lesser than USA players. Sounds arrogant.
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Re: WTF...

Post by bigtex75081 on 10/12/2017, 12:29 pm

Uncleof05AP wrote:BigTex, I would consider taking it a step further.  Maybe our focus should be on the 2020 Summer Olympics?  If that is the case, we should focus on players that will be U-23 in 2020, as well as a few players that we might use for the three over 23 exceptions.   We could then revamp with some slightly older players after the 2020 Olympics if needed.  It would at least give US soccer fans something to hope for before the 2022 World Cup.
After reading and rereading this one... I agree.  That probably is a smarter path.  To have that incremental step before the next WC.  Yedlin could play as one of the over-23 exceptions.
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Re: WTF...

Post by Socceropath on 10/12/2017, 12:51 pm

Hard to give up this early on the likes of Arriola and Acosta, but the reality is as long as they continue to ply their trade in the MLS their growth curve is pretty shallow.    That leaves Pulisic and Yedlin as the only two cornerstone players to build around.  That's a pretty bare cupboard.  Pulisic needs to be given the Captain's arm band immediately.  His willingness to defer to the veteran leadership this cycle (which I don't fault him for) is huge reason they played so poorly.

Agree that 2020 Olympics needs to be the focus and in order to qualify (which we haven't the past 2). Who gets the 3 U23 exemptions? Yedlin, Morris, and Brooks perhaps?  Time is now to invest in the U17/U20's.  Bottom line is if we can't qualify for 2020 Olympics, we are kidding ourselves for not expecting a similar fate in 2022 WC cycle.

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Re: WTF...

Post by earbucket on 10/12/2017, 4:21 pm

Riquelme Rises wrote:
Uncleof05AP wrote:RR, I usually enjoy your commentary, but at the least, please make comments supported by facts.  Borrussia Dortmund has played seven Bundesliga games this season.  Pulisic has started in six of those games and has played in all seven games.  Thus, I am not sure that I would classify him as a "bench player."   I am not saying that I disagree with some of your points, but the beasts on this board will use anything to discredit someone.   Do not give them the fodder.


My point is what has he done to merit this expectation? The fact is the USA will never win a WC. If the goal is to just get there then what is the point of that. Sprint keeps bashing talent level of T&T but this is a team sport and USA got beat simple as that. He claims, he is not the only one, that USA players beat themselves. What kind of crap is that to say? Obviously the talent is not that different. I don't see why anyone would think that T&T players lesser than USA players. Sounds arrogant.

I'm confused. Are you saying that the poor attitude of most US players in this game had no effect on the outcome and that this game was a crapshoot because the talent is so similar?  And are you saying that T&T talent is not that different from US talent since 1990?  The results from that time period does not bear that out.  

The failure of the US in this hex had more to do with coaching.  

Here is some analysis showing the poor effort of US that night.  

US-TT

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Re: WTF...

Post by Riquelme Rises on 10/12/2017, 4:32 pm

earbucket wrote:
Riquelme Rises wrote:
Uncleof05AP wrote:RR, I usually enjoy your commentary, but at the least, please make comments supported by facts.  Borrussia Dortmund has played seven Bundesliga games this season.  Pulisic has started in six of those games and has played in all seven games.  Thus, I am not sure that I would classify him as a "bench player."   I am not saying that I disagree with some of your points, but the beasts on this board will use anything to discredit someone.   Do not give them the fodder.


My point is what has he done to merit this expectation? The fact is the USA will never win a WC. If the goal is to just get there then what is the point of that. Sprint keeps bashing talent level of T&T but this is a team sport and USA got beat simple as that. He claims, he is not the only one, that USA players beat themselves. What kind of crap is that to say? Obviously the talent is not that different. I don't see why anyone would think that T&T players lesser than USA players. Sounds arrogant.

I'm confused. Are you saying that the poor attitude of most US players in this game had no effect on the outcome and that this game was a crapshoot because the talent is so similar?  And are you saying that T&T talent is not that different from US talent since 1990?  The results from that time period does not bear that out.  

The failure of the US in this hex had more to do with coaching.  

Here is some analysis showing the poor effort of US that night.  

US-TT



If the USA was competing against South American teams they would never have made the WC unless you count 94 (Hosted). To say they are so much more talented than T&T is arrogant. If they are sooo much more superior why did they get beat? Are you telling me that they did not feel like winning or simply did not care? What kind of excuse is that? Honestly it should never have come to this if the USA players are so much more superior. They should have qualified some time ago like Mexico. You guys give this crop of players much more credit than they deserve......I cannot believe the exuses I am reading here and then to blame the coach. Wait!! Did he not care either? Come on....
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Re: WTF...

Post by Majortom on 10/12/2017, 4:52 pm

Riquelme Rises wrote:
Number13 wrote:
Riquelme Rises wrote:

Perfect example of our broken system, look at U17 BNT, Blaine Ferri is there and many of us in NTX have seen him play and he is no world beater nor would he have made it on some of the top teams in NTX but his daddy has long standing connections with USA bureaucracy and that is how he is there. Nothing personal with the kid or dad its just that is how all this works!

Haha.  Nothing personal, 17-yr old kid.  You just suck and your daddy bought your way onto the team.  But nothing personal.   Very Happy

I heard he got cut from a few CL teams, so he had to play up in DA instead, and from there he got scooped right up to start for the U17 team.   For all I know his dad bribed Gulati to get him on the team past all the other political BS, but everybody I know says he appears to be Jesus Christ come down amongst us on the soccer pitch relative to the local proles his age.  Which is probably what it takes if you are going to be an average USNT player.  

I'm sure if folks want to name names there are, IMO, a lot more glaring cases of politics.  But to each his own.  

We all have biases.   I seriously doubt rich white kids are the best place to be looking for a team of world class players, but everything is on a case-by-case basis.   There is very little evidence that any demographic here is capable of producing world class players.



Daddy has the connections and that does not mean he has to bribe anyone its about who you know. If you know the right people then you get the opportunities others can only dream of. But he is one example of many that cause the USMNT at each age level to falter. It has nothing to do with this kid being WHITE as you say, it has all to do with political connections. He is an average player at best but then again so is the USMNT. There are many players that are better but do not get the opportunities that these connected players have. Maybe US Scouts should come to a few inner city league games or maybe watch some local semi-pro teams etc. to find real talent.


The kid has something special...he's excelled at every sport he's ever played -tennis, football, soccer, basketball- and could have pursued any of them at the next level.  IMO, he is head and shoulders above most local CL and DA club players his age. He reads the game well. U17 NT coach plays him differently than his club coach does.

To be clear, he did play for a top NTX team for many years; his dad has been very loyal to the only club he's ever played for -some sentimental reason-....playing up in DA at his club isn't much to brag about, if your last name is Ree***....or if there's a remote chance of helping any of the teams out of their current slumping seasons, you play up. That said, every season he's played either PA or DA, his team has had a losing season...not his fault as he's usually traveling but notable regardless as that can be viewed differently (rest of the team/coach sucks, coach plays him in different position, he's not a world beater, he can't do everything, etc.). Watched him play a few weeks ago...scored goal but nothing spectacular. Obvious he didn't want to risk an injury before WC. Love his vision. He should be back in town for couple of home games after WC.

There's always been a rumor about connections/politics -RR may be in the know-. AS will be the first one to take credit for it..who knows? Easiest way to find out is to show up at Stampede on a Thursday night, buy a couple of beers and dad will open up...alternatively, simple google search with right keywords could reveal some connections.... Do "means justify end"?...maybe..to each his own..he's managed to stay and that's admirable.

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Re: WTF...

Post by Number13 on 10/12/2017, 4:55 pm

Riquelme Rises wrote:

If the USA was competing against South American teams they would never have made the WC unless you count 94 (Hosted). To say they are so much more talented than T&T is arrogant. If they are sooo much more superior why did they get beat? Are you telling me that they did not feel like winning or simply did not care? What kind of excuse is that? Honestly it should never have come to this if the USA players are so much more superior. They should have qualified some time ago like Mexico. You guys give this crop of players much more credit than they deserve......I cannot believe the exuses I am reading here and then to blame the coach. Wait!! Did he not care either? Come on....

The angst about them not qualifying amongst US fans AND the joy about them not qualifying amongst local non-US fans is a directly related to the fact that they were HUGE FRIGGING FAVORITES TO QUALIFY. Throughout the entire process. They choked.

So, yeah, pretty much everybody thought they were superior and would qualify. And they didn't. Tough beats. Underdogs win. Otherwise sports betting would be a lot easier. And favorites lose. And when favorites lose, people are surprised and tend to analyze why. Generally most folks can separate the emotion and still see why the prohibitive favorite was the favorite. But whatever. The joy of the internet.

Not that being the favorite in Concacaf is any great shakes. Last time Mexico was the favorite and needed the US to give them a reacharound on the last day to make it in. Everybody not from South America or Europe would likely not be able to qualify in either region. So that doesn't really make the US stand out.
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Re: WTF...

Post by Maradona on 10/12/2017, 6:26 pm

Sprint wrote:
Riquelme Rises wrote:
Sprint wrote:I think more of this should fall on the players that were on the field last night than what most are saying.  Everyone wants to blame pay to play, coaches, the system etc, but how about the guys on the field were just trash last night, save Pulisic.  If my kid played like that on a Saturday at Richland College there would be no stopping at Chick Fil a for ice cream on the way home.  

The system definitely needs changing, selling players would be nice for youth clubs but then you have Federal Labor laws to deal with. MLS clubs can already sell players and doesn't seem like many European clubs are breaking the bank to buy MLS American kids.  So the incentive to develop players is already here at least for MLS clubs and it has not done much.

Pay to play is not going anywhere but is not as big a problem as some think. If you are good youth player, you can find places to play for free in North Texas.  Lots of them and with some good coaches on DA level teams.  

I am not convinced a great coach is anything more than a guy that has a decent knowledge of the game and some really good players while he will be an average coach if he has average players. Its about the players...But yes, coaching can get better.

Scouting needs to reach further in more areas but the US is so big it can't get everywhere, just not doable.  If your kid is  star, get him to a big city and put all your chips in the soccer basket. Kids move from all over to Frisco in the hopes of soccer future for FCD and take the risk everyday.  You can't expect US soccer to turn over every rock in BFE to find the one kid that can play lights out in Marfa.  

The players on the US soccer team laid a huge egg last night, and most of qualifying.  They should be held accountable and dismissed from US soccer duty for any future call ups, save Pulisic.  




But these are the players that are there via politics. Altidore was never good enough, Dempsey was better when he played in EPL but came to MLS and got fat. The other players like Bradley are there because of political connections. The players are to blame yes, but the system should take the most blame because there are players that are better but do not have the political connections and are left out. Once again I think it is down right funny!!!!

There's politics in everything but the team on the field for the US should have been good enough to beat the team on the field for T&T.  We were not outmatched, we got outplayed, badly.  That falls squarely on the players.  Most of the T&T team plays either in the T&T pro league ( probably much like a mens rec league in DFW) or are hanging on to a USL team in the US or a few are on MLS rosters.  That's not a soccer powerhouse.  The US has players form Bundesliga and EPL on the roster.  It should have been a foregone conclusion...particularly knowing the stakes.  

The US players, however they got there, blew it and should all be dismissed, with few exceptions.  

The system does need revamping, but the other night falls squarely on those guys for walking around, not caring and just being overall terrible.

Michael Bradley, however he got on the team, is better than anyone from T&T.  Dempsey is miles better than anyone from T&T.  T&T will never have a player like Pulisic in the history of the Country.  We were better at probably every position on the field, save Omar Gonzalez and Beasler who have no business being near a soccer field ever again.

What an ignorant, condescending and disrespectful comment....ever heard of Dwight Yorke? Probably not. I bet you were one of those who compared Freddy Adu to Maradona when he was 14...we get it, Pulisic is really good but don't get ahead of yourself. Maybe this arrogance was the reason why the USMNT failed to qualify....the lack of effort was just a byproduct of that 'overconfidence'

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Re: WTF...

Post by Riquelme Rises on 10/12/2017, 6:42 pm

Number13 wrote:
Riquelme Rises wrote:

If the USA was competing against South American teams they would never have made the WC unless you count 94 (Hosted). To say they are so much more talented than T&T is arrogant. If they are sooo much more superior why did they get beat? Are you telling me that they did not feel like winning or simply did not care? What kind of excuse is that? Honestly it should never have come to this if the USA players are so much more superior. They should have qualified some time ago like Mexico. You guys give this crop of players much more credit than they deserve......I cannot believe the exuses I am reading here and then to blame the coach. Wait!! Did he not care either? Come on....

The angst about them not qualifying amongst US fans AND the joy about them not qualifying amongst local non-US fans is a directly related to the fact that they were HUGE FRIGGING FAVORITES TO QUALIFY.   Throughout the entire process.   They choked.

So, yeah, pretty much everybody thought they were superior and would qualify.   And they didn't.   Tough beats.  Underdogs win.  Otherwise sports betting would be a lot easier.   And favorites lose.  And when favorites lose, people are surprised and tend to analyze why.  Generally most folks can separate the emotion and still see why the prohibitive favorite was the favorite.   But whatever.  The joy of the internet.  

Not that being the favorite in Concacaf is any great shakes.   Last time Mexico was the favorite and needed the US to give them a reacharound on the last day to make it in.    Everybody not from South America or Europe would likely not be able to qualify in either region.   So that doesn't really make the US stand out.




Right on!!!!
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Re: WTF...

Post by Riquelme Rises on 10/13/2017, 8:19 am

http://shr.gs/WPgjcCL

Story just came up on goal.com
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Re: WTF...

Post by Number13 on 10/13/2017, 8:48 am

Yep.  We just need the US to dismantle Obamacare, enlist the whole medical profession as civil servants, and redistribute all of the wages to fund youth soccer for each and every citizen.   I believe its one of the unalienable rights.  Access to youth activities.   Lots of gymnasts that need a handout as well.  

The main cost is the coach.  Have enough free coaches and they don't cost anything.   We don't have enough free coaches worth a crap.   So somebody has to pay them.   (and yeah sure, paying them is no guarantee of quality in many cases).   And the system doesn't produce a good enough product for people outside the system to want to carry the costs.   MLS certainly is not going to subsidize 20 million kids worth of select soccer every year for a $50B price tag.  

We all know plenty of people who can't pay who the system takes care of.  I'd say FCD DA is the top local program, and it's free.  Its easy to say "its not the cost because player X doesn't pay jack".   But I also know a lot of people from disadvantaged backgrounds who get very well taken care of in the overall society.   Free college, diversity initiatives, affirmative action, whatever.   But that is a small % of folks, those folks are the exception.   Being disadvantaged sucks.   Most folks who feel disenfranchised never make any attempt to give things (select soccer, college) a shot.   Thus the perception of disenfranchisement becomes the reality.   If you can't pay and are good, like Howard, you will get taken care of IF you put yourself out there.      

There is no easy fix.  You need everybody to want to play soccer.  You need soccer role models.   Everybody needs an uncle who almost made it.   An older neighbor who played at a higher level who is playing pickup soccer at your local park.  Fathers who can coach.   Right now most of your potential players don't even bother with ANY sort of soccer.  Ever.  It will be a long process, and it may never amount to anything,  have to have success to have success.   Which is part of the angst about not qualifying.
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Re: WTF...

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