I think that top team is good for little axx. He is very good and makes an impact on the team so his play is important. A top team is not always the best choice. Some kids end up on a top team making very little impact and might be better served as a player on a different team. Many of the players from the FCD juniors team did not come from "top" teams, they just learned to play and make an impact in the game. It is a team constructed of "impact" players not players from top teams. Axx is very correct though. If he finishes top 3 his team will either stay the same or improve in talent the next season. Bottom 5 could actually lose talent.

Axxman wrote:For the exact reasons you mention. If a team is not in the top 5 around these here parts, it becomes more difficult to keep that team together for the long haul. In theory, if you have a top coach on one of the top teams, it becomes easier to attract talent. Every year teams will lose players for many reasons and the object is to replace them with equal or better players. I think my bb will improve if he plays with equal or better players. I also want to definately finish in the top 3 or 4 of next season (1st half of it) because that will qualify the team for Dallas Cup, and we want to be part of that experience.

At this age and beyond, the top 4 or 5 teams is also where the competition is at. Much like basketball, do you get better playing with average players in the local PSA or Fieldhouse leagues, or if your bb is good enough to make AAU and experience that, which do you think will help him develop and become a better player?

Hard to argue with your points, and in your case I'm sure they are all quite valid. I guess I am questioning the broader group here in NTX where so much energy and attention is placed on who beats who and where teams are ranked. It seems to me that if the same energy was focused on indiviual play rather than team results we might end up with more superstars later on when these kids become of age.

I would say that specialized training and skills sessions are at an all time high in NTX so individual development is occurring. There are more good coaches here then every before as well. The emphasis on winning is interesting because most of the parents and bb's themselves want to win, but many people tell you they don't care about W-Ls only about developemt of their bb. Truth be told I think most would agree with the way Axx exmplained it here. Its not everything but don't kid yourself into thinking its not important.

sweep20 wrote:I would say that specialized training and skills sessions are at an all time high in NTX so individual development is occurring. There are more good coaches here then every before as well. The emphasis on winning is interesting because most of the parents and bb's themselves want to win, but many people tell you they don't care about W-Ls only about developemt of their bb. Truth be told I think most would agree with the way Axx exmplained it here. Its not everything but don't kid yourself into thinking its not important.

You are missing my point altogether. Of course there is all kinds of individual training going on round here and there are excellent coaches all around us. But it's the pressure to win at all costs when the boys get on the pitch that I think drives out the creativity and individualism that might otherwise develop at a better clip. Where does this pressure come from? From the consumers (parents) that want wins. Coaches are compelled to produce wins because parents demand wins I believe in many cases moreso than the individual development of their child. I realize this topic has been beaten to death on this forum but it's because there is so much truth to it and we have to see it every week at Richland or PHP... parents acting like little Johnny is playing in the World Cup every time he steps on the pitch. All the yelling and screaming and carrying on puts pressure on the kids and in my opinion affects their play in a very negative way, although I think most of the kids have learned to block that out by now. The pressure to win at all costs also affects the style the coaches have them play. We see a ton of up and down, kick it forward and kick it forward some more which in my opinion they are not ready for at this age. It is quite ugly to watch the sloppiness of that style at this age, but hey, keep kicking it long to the fast kids does work at this age eventually, so that's what we get most of the time (with a few exceptions). Here I go again wasting server space on a worn out topic that's not gonna change any time soon.

Where you at Fins, your catch phrase is required...

forbin wrote:

sweep20 wrote:I would say that specialized training and skills sessions are at an all time high in NTX so individual development is occurring. There are more good coaches here then every before as well. The emphasis on winning is interesting because most of the parents and bb's themselves want to win, but many people tell you they don't care about W-Ls only about developemt of their bb. Truth be told I think most would agree with the way Axx exmplained it here. Its not everything but don't kid yourself into thinking its not important.

You are missing my point altogether. Of course there is all kinds of individual training going on round here and there are excellent coaches all around us. But it's the pressure to win at all costs when the boys get on the pitch that I think drives out the creativity and individualism that might otherwise develop at a better clip. Where does this pressure come from? From the consumers (parents) that want wins. Coaches are compelled to produce wins because parents demand wins I believe in many cases moreso than the individual development of their child. I realize this topic has been beaten to death on this forum but it's because there is so much truth to it and we have to see it every week at Richland or PHP... parents acting like little Johnny is playing in the World Cup every time he steps on the pitch. All the yelling and screaming and carrying on puts pressure on the kids and in my opinion affects their play in a very negative way, although I think most of the kids have learned to block that out by now. The pressure to win at all costs also affects the style the coaches have them play. We see a ton of up and down, kick it forward and kick it forward some more which in my opinion they are not ready for at this age. It is quite ugly to watch the sloppiness of that style at this age, but hey, keep kicking it long to the fast kids does work at this age eventually, so that's what we get most of the time (with a few exceptions). Here I go again wasting server space on a worn out topic that's not gonna change any time soon.

Where you at Fins, your catch phrase is required...

Forbin, I agree with you but if I may say you almost sound...French.
Yes and yes everybody puts way too much emphasis on winning games but is there any way out of that ? Don't we always play games to win ? I am like you I wish we can all solely think about development but this is not a cartoon this is not a movie, this is just life.
The coaches want to win the parents want to win and the kids want to win. I have so many examples of that: my boys playing 3v3 scrimmages between friends at soleroll and going out of the field almost crying because their team took a goal and they have to wait 3 minutes before going back in. Another one: my 03 (so 7 years old) following all the results of his SDL league and ranking the teams on his own; he even know better than I do the teams that he played and can actually name the coaches that he played against (which I can't).
In the end I really wish everybody can get along and leave together happy but this is just not reality. politicians work to get elected, dentists work to retire early, companies work to make money ...and teams play to win games.

Hey, don't get me wrong, I want to win too and bb certainly wants to win, but if we fast forward a few years we might be looking back saying, man, all those wins meant nothing, wish bb would have learned to slow down, play the game with poise and use his head (smarts) to play instead of his wheels.

Dang, peeps, same poop different pile!...When in doubt, kick it out...Just boot it up top..Soccer is a business and winning is good for business.


Ultimately, it comes down to what is best for your player. If he is having fun, then that's all that really matters. If you have a plan for his development over time, and his interest level stays intact, then stick with the plan. See you all on the pitch this weekend. Remember, no yelling in the car!

Food for thought.
Below is an article from Dr. Jay Martin, the editor or the NSCAA Soccer Journal and head coach at Ohio Wesleyan University. In the article, Dr. Martin believes
that our expectations of U10 players are not as high as they are in Germany or other soccer playing countries. Within the article Dr. Martin offers his reasons for this disparity as well as possible solutions.
NSCAA Soccer Journal
Center Circle
May – June, 2009
I visited Bayern Munich for a week in March. There will be more in-depth information on that visit in the September-October issue of Soccer Journal. At the beginning of the week Bayern assistant, Nick Theslof told me the best team in the
club was the U10 team. So, I went to a training session, then another and then another and I attended a game on Saturday. I was absolutely stunned. The team was, without question, a very good team.
The training sessions were conducted at a high level and intensity. Each activity forced the players to” play the game”. The players passed; played the wall pass;
played in the third man; played one and two touch; attacked the goal with combination play and worked hard on defense. They were fun to watch!
Surely this was a group of youngsters who were scouted throughout Germany and brought to Bayern as part of the Academy program? But when asked, the coach assured me these were members of the club from the local area and not
really special players. So how did these kids get so good at such a young age?
Gianluca Vialli in his book The Italian Job asks a similar question in the early chapters. He says, when young children start kicking a soccer ball they do so the exact same way all over the World. You cannot tell one nationality from another
at the starting point. But what happens in the next ten years? Why are some cultures and their U10’s far in front of other cultures in terms of soccer maturation and level of play? Why were these U10’s at Bayern so far ahead of
U10’s in the United States? There may be a couple of reasons.

First, the Bayern U10’s have a tremendous group of role models. At Bayern, the U10’s get to train on the field adjacent to the first team. They see Phillip Lamm,Frank Ribery and Luca Toni train everyday. They carry those images to their training sessions and try to imitate their heroes. At one time, not long ago, that was a problem in this country. No one saw soccer (as they did basketball and
baseball) and no one had role models.
But we should not have that problem today. Today in the US, we have role models for our players. There is more soccer available at all levels for our young players to watch and imitate. That includes players in the US and from international teams. So I ask again, why doesn’t that kind of advanced play happen in the United States?
Allow me to suggest a possible answer; our expectations of our U10’s are not as high as they are in Germany or other soccer playing countries!! A perusal of soccer curriculums on the Internet may support this statement. The characteristics of U10’s include selfishness, independent, short (but getting
better) attention span etc. These characteristics lend themselves to dribbling, receiving the ball with your feet and maybe shooting with both feet. The focus is still the individual and combining with teammates and passing are not a priority.
This is wrong. We must increase our expectations of young soccer players.
After watching the Bayern U10’s, it is clear that we can get more out of our young players. And, we must get more out of our young players.
Research in many areas suggests that high expectations are important for success. Academic expectations have been studied many times. Low expectations reap low achievement; high expectations reap high achievement.
Many coaches today feel that U10’s are not ready for passing, combining and one touch play. They want youth coaches to be patient and wait until the young players are ready. Why? Passing is an integral part of the game and should be
taught and demonstrated early. This is not an indictment of any youth coach and his/her coaching, rather a concern that should be addressed by our soccer culture.
We tell ourselves that U10’s are not ready for advanced soccer technique. Our expectations for these young players are too low. If, as a soccer nation, we get behind the other international players at age 10 it stands to reason that we will always remain behind these players. While U10’s in Munich move forward and incorporate tactics into their play, the U10’s in the US are still dribbling or standing in two lines passing.
Part of this is due to our inferiority complex as a soccer culture. We are so concerned with our supposed lack of foot-eye coordination that we over do the early steps in the training process (i.e. dribbling, juggling etc.). It is time to move on from that mindset and push our young players.
When I say push and suggest higher expectations I am not referring to winning.
In fact, winning has nothing to do with these expectations; I am referring to playing, competing and expecting more from our young players on the field.
Youth coaches spend a great deal of time teaching the basic fundamentals of soccer because we feel our children need a longer introduction to “foot skills”. In our American culture “foot skills” do not come naturally as they might in
Germany or Spain. But they do. Remember the scenario raised earlier by Gianluca Vialli. Children in all countries kick the ball the same way when they start. Then what happens? In many countries the young children begin to learn
how to play. In the US we start to teach the children how to kick and dribble. I believe they already know how to perform these skills. Let’s get the children playing the game and using and refining these skills. Children will refine these
skills as they play because they will learn what is necessary to be successful.
Remember how children learned by playing soccer in the streets? When children play in the streets there are no lines; there is no standing around and all the
children are playing whether it is even or uneven numbers on each team.
Coaching schools urge us to replicate street soccer in training.
So, we should push our younger players. We should expect more from them. We should challenge the young players in training and devise ways and means to incorporate a number of skills in each training activity.

Ok German, I'm on board. I guess I'm gonna have to move to Germany to get that Werder Bremen Pizarro jersey, and while I'm there, I'll drop off my little ones at Bayern Munich. I'm gonna need some contacts.......

Axxman wrote:Ok German, I'm on board. I guess I'm gonna have to move to Germany to get that Werder Bremen Pizarro jersey, and while I'm there, I'll drop off my little ones at Bayern Munich. I'm gonna need some contacts.......

Here you go.
Werner Kern
0114989699310
Good luck.

German, I certainly did not mean to imply that we should not expect more from our kids. In fact, the opposite. My comment about them not being ready at 11 to go long all game long was pointed at the lack of completion percentage at this age. We see them kick long over and over and give up possession many times when doing so due to inaccurate long passes. If we could slow the game down, make them play short one-touch passes, I think they would be better served in the long run (I enjoy watching that type of soccer too, but that is just me). To me, that is what development at this age should be about.

forbin wrote:German, I certainly did not mean to imply that we should not expect more from our kids. In fact, the opposite. My comment about them not being ready at 11 to go long all game long was pointed at the lack of completion percentage at this age. We see them kick long over and over and give up possession many times when doing so due to inaccurate long passes. If we could slow the game down, make them play short one-touch passes, I think they would be better served in the long run (I enjoy watching that type of soccer too, but that is just me). To me, that is what development at this age should be about.

I only wanted to show another opinion doesn't mean it's mine because I think it lacks one big factor ,and as I said before, which is the amount of time the kids play/watch soccer compared to other nations. We can discuss as much as we want how to develop but fact is if kids play twice as much they will develop faster IMO.

The German wrote:

forbin wrote:German, I certainly did not mean to imply that we should not expect more from our kids. In fact, the opposite. My comment about them not being ready at 11 to go long all game long was pointed at the lack of completion percentage at this age. We see them kick long over and over and give up possession many times when doing so due to inaccurate long passes. If we could slow the game down, make them play short one-touch passes, I think they would be better served in the long run (I enjoy watching that type of soccer too, but that is just me). To me, that is what development at this age should be about.

I only wanted to show another opinion doesn't mean it's mine because I think it lacks one big factor ,and as I said before, which is the amount of time the kids play/watch soccer compared to other nations. We can discuss as much as we want how to develop but fact is if kids play twice as much they will develop faster IMO.

I concur!