So DT Gall went into their game vs. Wizards having scored 30 goals in 5 games. Wizards went in not having given up any goals in the same amount of games. The outcome of the game was a 0-0 tie.


Which would be better to have? A stout defense or an explosive offense? Of course, a combination of both is better, but given the choice, which would be better to have?


It seems to me that when a great offensive team faces a great defensive team, the defensive team usually comes out on top.


The goals that seems to be 50 feet wide when the offensive team plays against inferior defense teams seems to shrink to 5 feet wide against good defensive teams.


Interested on what others out there think about this subject, not particularly on these two teams, which btw I think are pretty darn good at their respective styles of play.

indy, my thoughts have always been, if the other team can't score on you then you can never lose. same thing as in baseball, pitching and defenses win championships not hitting.

Always D!! You can look at the Top 7-8 Teams and see that.

That's true in almost all competitive sports. The team or person with the best defense has an advantage. Even in many individual sports like boxing and wrestling - the people who have the best defense (mixed with something they do good offensively) usually are the champions.

Defense isn't everything, yes its hard to lose if you don't get scored on, but they have shootouts at the end of the game that the defense has no part in. So to be championship calliber, you'd best have something you do really good offensively too. But yes, defense is the foundation to a championship team.

Have any of you been through any dilemas with your coaches on where your bb plays because of defense being the focus?


I've seen a situation where a coach wanted to play a highly skilled player who had always played in the midfield or forward as a sweeper and the parents pulled him from the team because they wanted him to stay up top (this was @ U10).


The coach pleaded his case from the defense 1st mentality, but the parents would not buy into it. Sadly that bb is playing up top but on a team that is not doing as well.


The coach that we had @ U7 - U9 interchanged all of his players between offense and defense, which made the transition of the bb's on that team into whatever positions they ended up in for U10 & U11 much easier.


I really wish more coaches at these age groups would do that, but unfortunately most coaches peg their players at U6 as defenders or attackers.

indyfc wrote:Have any of you been through any dilemas with your coaches on where your bb plays because of defense being the focus?


I've seen a situation where a coach wanted to play a highly skilled player who had always played in the midfield or forward as a sweeper and the parents pulled him from the team because they wanted him to stay up top (this was @ U10).


The coach pleaded his case from the defense 1st mentality, but the parents would not buy into it. Sadly that bb is playing up top but on a team that is not doing as well.


The coach that we had @ U7 - U9 interchanged all of his players between offense and defense, which made the transition of the bb's on that team into whatever positions they ended up in for U10 & U11 much easier.


I really wish more coaches at these age groups would do that, but unfortunately most coaches peg their players at U6 as defenders or attackers.

See,that's the problem with competitive soccer before 13-14 years of age. You take a kid who is a very good player, and stick him back as sweeper - peg him there for the next year or two, and he's not allowed to dribble, not allowed to be creative, and eventually he loses his skill advantage he had at a young age. All because winning takes precedence over development. Parents get all pissed off at the parent who pulls his/her kid from that situation, but I don't blame them. The kid will lose out in development in the long run if he's pegged in a spot where movement and creativity is frowned upon - because eventually he will need more creativity and ability to move the ball just to keep the defensive spot (when he hits 16 years of age - some kid who was playing forward or midfield will be moved back to defense and the 11 year old who used to be the star player but who hasn't worked on being creative in 4 years will lose his spot on the team to the kid who was able to stay in midfield or forward who has been working feverishly on being able to dribble and be creative over the last 2-4 years).

When the kids are older, they will need to know how to play defense regardless of position.
Kids can be hidden on team up top, but never in the back - so, consider it a compliment if your coach wants your kid to play in the back where help is needed.

There is rarely an academy team where every kid on it wasn't a star forward on their rec team. With the possible exception of the keeper.

Defense is infinitely more important than offense - when the kids get older, it's hard than heck to score - defense rules.

Good Topic, and one close to home for my bb.
I actually agree with both clueless and R1 on this one. I take it as a compliment that my bb plays sweeper on one of the top teams in the 00 division because it is a tough high risk low reward position to play, any mistakes are magnified. I do worry sometimes about his skills in the long run, he can do everything at practice but rarely uses in a game at sweep and for good reason in many instances. With your back 15 yards from goal it is much more of a dribble or play it to safety/feet rather than let me take someone on 1v1.

Defense win Championships.

sweep20 wrote:Good Topic, and one close to home for my bb.
I actually agree with both clueless and R1 on this one. I take it as a compliment that my bb plays sweeper on one of the top teams in the 00 division because it is a tough high risk low reward position to play, any mistakes are magnified. I do worry sometimes about his skills in the long run, he can do everything at practice but rarely uses in a game at sweep and for good reason in many instances. With your back 15 yards from goal it is much more of a dribble or play it to safety/feet rather than let me take someone on 1v1.

Are there any suggestions on how to fix this? Should parents be able to talk to their coaches about this? Again, like R1 stated, that's what's wrong with competetive soccer.


The focus is too much on winning and coaches don't want to give those good defensive players time up top and risk giving up goals.


Does any club offer a solution to this, whether it may be by committing to interchanging players or offering scrimmages where this is done? Again, I think the answer is no because most club coaches have to many teams and their time is limited, but it would be nice to have somthing like that available.

Indy, please see the thread on 04s for the answer. The insanity started way back there...it's a never ending cycle...just try to keep it fun for your player. Hopefully you're on a U16 timetable anyway and are looking longer term...

indyfc wrote:

sweep20 wrote:Good Topic, and one close to home for my bb.
I actually agree with both clueless and R1 on this one. I take it as a compliment that my bb plays sweeper on one of the top teams in the 00 division because it is a tough high risk low reward position to play, any mistakes are magnified. I do worry sometimes about his skills in the long run, he can do everything at practice but rarely uses in a game at sweep and for good reason in many instances. With your back 15 yards from goal it is much more of a dribble or play it to safety/feet rather than let me take someone on 1v1.

Are there any suggestions on how to fix this? Should parents be able to talk to their coaches about this? Again, like R1 stated, that's what's wrong with competitive soccer.


The focus is too much on winning and coaches don't want to give those good defensive players time up top and risk giving up goals.


Does any club offer a solution to this, whether it may be by committing to interchanging players or offering scrimmages where this is done? Again, I think the answer is no because most club coaches have to many teams and their time is limited, but it would be nice to have something like that available.

Indy, I like the idea of scrimmaging games for that purpose only. My personal opinion is that this will never be fixed in a "COMPETITIVE" league. 1.)Parents pay to much money for kids to be in a loosing team. 2.)Its a "COMPETITIVE" league. Maybe a great idea could be to leave bb in recreational league till the age of 13 or 14 were it seems that's when "COMPETITIVE" league is worth being in.

Agree with Galagtic in a competitive league where the turnover is so high year to year its tough not to place an emphasis on W/L's, certain things get sacrificed because of this. System is broken but it is the system that has been created.

I agree with you guys, defense will win you the games. Now, especially when we are talking about U11 kids (IE: we are talking about development) shouldn't the coach encourage offense over defense ? Also I think people wants to see offense so lets try to encourage open games more than close games. Remember that Fifa had to change the rules of the game in the mid 80s due to super tight (mainly Italian) defenses who would just kill games in order to win 1-0 (they modified the pass back to the keeper).

Finally 2 things worth mentioning about yesterday's game : The regular keeper of the Wizard had to be subbed (and never came back) 5 mn into the game after a collision and the Texans were missing one of their top player (very technical offensive midfield player).

Also, I think it is somewhat a matter of talking and then choosing the coach you want for your kid.
My personal experience with one of my boy is the following: He played as a sweeper in a team and got put there for a year. No matter how many discussions I had with his coach he would stick him there. I would have "very competent and experienced" people say stuff like: yes your boy is a defensive player, look at his attitude, look how he moves look how he stands...Tired of talking and unhappy of seeing him "boot the ball up" all game long I pulled him out of the team and looked for another one.
Interestingly enough, the next coach that saw him put him on top of his offense at the end of his first trial practice and he has pretty much stay there since then (2 years).
Bottom line coaches and people see what they want to see in a kid and they all have their own philosophy. As a parent if you are not happy the only thing you can do is first take a few opinions (maybe all the coaches will see the same thing) and eventually leave (I doubt any of us will change a coach opinion).

CLUB31 wrote:Do you think having a kid play defense his first few years of select soccer hinders his development? I have talked to many parents that think this way, I am just not sure if they are correct. Will they not deveolp eventually at some point to any position?

Probably not, actually part of the development (seeing different positions, but that precisely was the problem, not just sweeper). And also, the coach yelling "just boot it up" really IS a problem....

gababa wrote:

CLUB31 wrote:Do you think having a kid play defense his first few years of select soccer hinders his development? I have talked to many parents that think this way, I am just not sure if they are correct. Will they not deveolp eventually at some point to any position?

Probably not, actually part of the development (seeing different positions, but that precisely was the problem, not just sweeper). And also, the coach yelling "just boot it up" really IS a problem....

Agreed - and it all stems from the 'cost' of an 'L' for an academy coach. There is no solution - they already don't keep score and we see how well that works (i.e. this board all but ruins any chances for having a developmental situation). If a coach is great at developing kids but can't win, no one will go there - it's been proven that people flock to whatever team is the Yankees (hopefully Rangers) of that season.

If your child is hindered because of playing defense, your practices are sorely lacking in skills.

Most of these kids were the top goal scores in Rec. That is why they wanted something more competetive and went Academy and now Select. I share the same concern as many parents when it comes to the ability to dribble and carry the ball forward and finish. My bb was one of the top goal scorer's in Rec., and in Academy started getting more and more time in the backfield. At first I didn't like it in Academy because his coach was not utilizing him properly, now my bb is in select with a great coach and he is learning the position of left back with a great understanding. These boys are either good strong soccer players or not...position doesn't matter. If you have a good coach, he will teach the kids to react to what they see, go 1v1, or find a solution to what problems are in front of them. In many cases, if your kid is in defense, it is a matter of what kind of personnel your team has. A great defender can see the whole game of soccer develop in front of them, and be a lethal weapon on the pitch. I agree D-FENCE ||||| wins games!!!

Amidoinitrite? wrote:These boys are either good strong soccer players or not...position doesn't matter. If you have a good coach, he will teach the kids to react to what they see, go 1v1, or find a solution to what problems are in front of them. In many cases, if your kid is in defense, it is a matter of what kind of personnel your team has. A great defender can see the whole game of soccer develop in front of them, and be a lethal weapon on the pitch. I agree D-FENCE ||||| wins games!!!

I agree we just need to think about the countless amazing Brazilian defensive players (last one would be Danny Alves at the Barca, who assists and crosses every game and scores regularly) to see how awesome defense can be at the individual level. But as you just said it trickles down, once again, to the coach allowing development or not. If all the coach has to say to his defense is boot it, you know you got to move on to another team. On the other end if he allows him to play make decisions bring the ball up and make the difference on the wing then yes it is a fun and highly interesting position.
Coaching coaching coaching...

Galagtic wrote:Defense win Championships.

Yes but its boring. Not very difficult to put 10 players behind the half way line. Give me 3-4-3.

soccerrus2 wrote:

Galagtic wrote:Defense win Championships.

Yes but its boring. Not very difficult to put 10 players behind the half way line. Give me 3-4-3.

Oh yes ! For us and our pleasure of watching fun soccer and most importantly for the kid's pleasure. They will have plenty of years during which they will have to calculate, slow down, bite their tongue and be politically correct. But please, at such a young age let them be wild and play some fun offensive games.

gababa wrote:

soccerrus2 wrote:

Galagtic wrote:Defense win Championships.

Yes but its boring. Not very difficult to put 10 players behind the half way line. Give me 3-4-3.

Oh yes ! For us and our pleasure of watching fun soccer and most importantly for the kid's pleasure. They will have plenty of years during which they will have to calculate, slow down, bite their tongue and be politically correct. But please, at such a young age let them be wild and play some fun offensive games.

Ha, my youngest is U16 and I want offensive games....as for them biting their tongue, doesn't happen when the get older!

I often hear defense wins championships but spain won the world cup against a team that went defensive. Barca was another team that didn't subscribe to that philosophy.

Agreed but the level of talent in both is way exceptional. It is easier to win by playing defense when you have a "normal" roster

go99 wrote:I often hear defense wins championships but spain won the world cup against a team that went defensive. Barca was another team that didn't subscribe to that philosophy.

True that they played against a team that went defensive but can't really play defensive. On the other hand Inter won the CL because how they played defense.

The German wrote:

go99 wrote:I often hear defense wins championships but spain won the world cup against a team that went defensive. Barca was another team that didn't subscribe to that philosophy.

True that they played against a team that went defensive but can't really play defensive. On the other hand Inter won the CL because how they played defense.

Yes I think you need to suit the players you have. Brazil tried to go with a defensive counter attacking system and failed horribly at it. It did not suit the players.

Galagtic wrote:Defense win Championships.

Galagtic has it right. A good offense wins games, but a solid defense wins championships.

Good Topic for all age groups...not just a 00 subject.



I've seen many defenders that could easily move into a forward position and be sucessful...on the other hand, it's rare that a forward can move to a defense position and look confident.

In fact, most the time the forward gives a half-a try because he/she doesn't think they "should have to" or "understand why" coach put them as a defender.

What really gets to me is to hear forwards or mids yell at the defenders after a goal is scored. My first thought is...what did you do to keep the ball on the other end of the field away from your defenders..??

How many times have we seen the keeper or defender get a chance on the field up front and score because they work their butt off attacking every ball as if were their last day to ever play soccer...







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