Read the article -- but the comments that follow is where the gold is mined.

What's this? Soccer 101 at the National Team Camp?

pass2space wrote:Read the article -- but the comments that follow is where the gold is mined.

What's this? Soccer 101 at the National Team Camp?

I cannot agree more with some of the comments. I often wonder what would happen if Lionel Messi were born in US and had to go through the academy system here. US can learn from Japan. I don't think Japan can win a World Cup in the next 10 years but go to youtube and find some video clips of Japanese kids playing soccer... the game has changed IMO, rule changes favor creativity and skills. Time for fundamental changes.

I think the soccer game in the US will change when more coaches, clubs and parents realize the importance of skills and ball control. Most of the games I watch are kick and run. No skills, no creativity, no ball control. Just kick & run and the pressure to score.

I recall when my BB practiced with a team for a few sessions and not one kid on the team knew how to juggle. My BB asked one of the players why they don't juggle & the response was "for what?"

I think instinct is also important for kids while playing soccer and most kids don't go with their instincts because of FEAR--fear of being yelled at by their coach, fear of being trashed by their teammates and of course fear of the psycho parents on the sidelines!

to your point on creativity - one thing on the very long list of things that need to change is the ratio of structured/unstructured play that occurs. I believe our young ones get more than their recommended dose of structured practices, drills and games. Not enough unstructured play where they can let loose, be creative, maybe work on some of the moves learned in practice without any fear of messing up, being corrected or directed by parent or coaches. I've noticed for quite some time that my son is always more anxious about getting to practices early or staying after practice so he and his teammates can just play. Same thing at school, during recess and after school when a collection of boys (all ages) meet up for a quick pick-up game with the goal being nothing more than between the chain link fence post of the baseball backstop. I'll have to go and dig up a comparison I came across that outlined the US compared to other countries and the ratio of structured/unstructured play in youth development. but unfortunately its what you would expect.

Very Interesting. US v Europe Youth Development Comparison (6-12 yr olds).

USSF 2009 Player Development Document

pass2space wrote:Very Interesting. US v Europe Youth Development Comparison (6-12 yr olds).

USSF 2009 Player Development Document

It is interesting but falls very short of giving any type of answers. Also it somewhat contradicts itself; it keeps on insisting on the lack of free, unstructured play but only offers better coaching education as a solution to soccer development in the US...What about soccer in school ? Playgrounds that allows small sided game in neighborhood ? Programs that allows clubs to offer a soccer school relying on the local ISD? What are the possibility to encourage unstructured play ? So I guess it is a work in progress type of document but I am hoping USSF has a few answers hidden somewhere ..

Why is it so inherently obvious and somewhat easy for kids to understand this concept in basketball, but not in soccer?

That is pretty scary to hear from a player of that level, like the number one draftee in baseball, after attending his first spring training camp, that he learned to keep his eye on the ball or use his gloved hand to catch.

That other ppt stands out in the fact that we just don't emphasize the sport - the practice/playing time gap between us and Europe keeps increasing. Personally, I don't think that it's a problem, but it's certainly a reason for the results.

pass2space wrote:Very Interesting. US v Europe Youth Development Comparison (6-12 yr olds).

USSF 2009 Player Development Document

Pass - thanks for finding this doc. It has the data points I was looking for on slides 7 and 8. However, I am not sure about the overall conclusion that US players in Zone 1 play much less than their European counterparts. Not sure how they collected the data points for US academy programs. They seem to grossly underestimate the playing time for US players.

On another thread about Zach Lloyd and specialization at an early age, I estimated roughly 6 hrs/week for a typical U9 academy player - that's 2 practices 2x1.5 hrs or 3 hrs, 1 skills at 1hr, 2 games (1 academy and 1 pickup game or rec game) at 2 hrs. If this is true, then US players actually play more than most their European counterparts with Ajax at 3.5 hr/wk at the low end and Bayern at 8hr/wk at the extreme high end (too bad there is no data points for Barca).

US academy programs have not been very successful in producing world class players. This can be objectively measured by how many US players play in the top leagues and the rankings of US national teams at different age groups. I don't believe that simply increasing playing time will do the trick. At my BB's age group, raw athleticism and pace are the dominating factors in 9v9 games. Perhaps small sided games can fix that or at least help to foster intelligent players. Coaching - I don't know how to fix that. Coaching certification programs?

1halfback wrote:

pass2space wrote:Very Interesting. US v Europe Youth Development Comparison (6-12 yr olds).

USSF 2009 Player Development Document

Pass - thanks for finding this doc. It has the data points I was looking for on slides 7 and 8. However, I am not sure about the overall conclusion that US players in Zone 1 play much less than their European counterparts. Not sure how they collected the data points for US academy programs. They seem to grossly underestimate the playing time for US players.

On another thread about Zach Lloyd and specialization at an early age, I estimated roughly 6 hrs/week for a typical U9 academy player - that's 2 practices 2x1.5 hrs or 3 hrs, 1 skills at 1hr, 2 games (1 academy and 1 pickup game or rec game) at 2 hrs. If this is true, then US players actually play more than most their European counterparts with Ajax at 3.5 hr/wk at the low end and Bayern at 8hr/wk at the extreme high end (too bad there is no data points for Barca).

US academy programs have not been very successful in producing world class players. This can be objectively measured by how many US players play in the top leagues and the rankings of US national teams at different age groups. I don't believe that simply increasing playing time will do the trick. At my BB's age group, raw athleticism and pace are the dominating factors in 9v9 games. Perhaps small sided games can fix that or at least help to foster intelligent players. Coaching - I don't know how to fix that. Coaching certification programs?

On playing time comparison - I take it back. I missed Slide 16. The difference is 'free playing time' and individual practice time, not 'supervised' practices and games. Perhaps that's really the problem!

1halfback wrote:

1halfback wrote:

pass2space wrote:Very Interesting. US v Europe Youth Development Comparison (6-12 yr olds).

USSF 2009 Player Development Document

Pass - thanks for finding this doc. It has the data points I was looking for on slides 7 and 8. However, I am not sure about the overall conclusion that US players in Zone 1 play much less than their European counterparts. Not sure how they collected the data points for US academy programs. They seem to grossly underestimate the playing time for US players.

On another thread about Zach Lloyd and specialization at an early age, I estimated roughly 6 hrs/week for a typical U9 academy player - that's 2 practices 2x1.5 hrs or 3 hrs, 1 skills at 1hr, 2 games (1 academy and 1 pickup game or rec game) at 2 hrs. If this is true, then US players actually play more than most their European counterparts with Ajax at 3.5 hr/wk at the low end and Bayern at 8hr/wk at the extreme high end (too bad there is no data points for Barca).

US academy programs have not been very successful in producing world class players. This can be objectively measured by how many US players play in the top leagues and the rankings of US national teams at different age groups. I don't believe that simply increasing playing time will do the trick. At my BB's age group, raw athleticism and pace are the dominating factors in 9v9 games. Perhaps small sided games can fix that or at least help to foster intelligent players. Coaching - I don't know how to fix that. Coaching certification programs?

On playing time comparison - I take it back. I missed Slide 16. The difference is 'free playing time' and individual practice time, not 'supervised' practices and games. Perhaps that's really the problem!

Now you got it!

finish1 wrote:

1halfback wrote:

1halfback wrote:

pass2space wrote:Very Interesting. US v Europe Youth Development Comparison (6-12 yr olds).

USSF 2009 Player Development Document

Pass - thanks for finding this doc. It has the data points I was looking for on slides 7 and 8. However, I am not sure about the overall conclusion that US players in Zone 1 play much less than their European counterparts. Not sure how they collected the data points for US academy programs. They seem to grossly underestimate the playing time for US players.

On another thread about Zach Lloyd and specialization at an early age, I estimated roughly 6 hrs/week for a typical U9 academy player - that's 2 practices 2x1.5 hrs or 3 hrs, 1 skills at 1hr, 2 games (1 academy and 1 pickup game or rec game) at 2 hrs. If this is true, then US players actually play more than most their European counterparts with Ajax at 3.5 hr/wk at the low end and Bayern at 8hr/wk at the extreme high end (too bad there is no data points for Barca).

US academy programs have not been very successful in producing world class players. This can be objectively measured by how many US players play in the top leagues and the rankings of US national teams at different age groups. I don't believe that simply increasing playing time will do the trick. At my BB's age group, raw athleticism and pace are the dominating factors in 9v9 games. Perhaps small sided games can fix that or at least help to foster intelligent players. Coaching - I don't know how to fix that. Coaching certification programs?

On playing time comparison - I take it back. I missed Slide 16. The difference is 'free playing time' and individual practice time, not 'supervised' practices and games. Perhaps that's really the problem!

Now you got it!

yes. How about the girls? US girls, at least the women's teams at the national level, have been on top for a while. Can we attribute their success to more playing time than their opponents at early stages? Coaching cannot be a factor unless better coaches all want to teach girls?

The us womans team came along at a time they were able to physically dominate the game. That time appears to be ending and there are plenty of calls on the women's side for more skilled players. Until recently places like Brazil soccer was considered a boys sport. Marta wasn't encouraged to play by her parents and had to do it on her own. With the rise of the sport we are starting to see the rapid rise of other womens teams and the decline of the US. Same problem as the men's side, it was just better hidden by the lesser competition.

That's true, Go. Soccer in the US has yet to be woven into the fabric of our sports culture. We are like tackle football in the 1930's when pro players often held other jobs to pay the rent. The day will come. Until then, why not build better soccer fans and pass on the passion for the game...

yeah well Bob Bradley made $818.244 ($600.00 of salary) between march 2009 and april 2010...I don't think he needs to sell pancakes on sundays to pay his rent ! There is some freaking big money in the US soccer federation !!! WHAT DO THEY DO WITH IT THOUGH !!!

Right, and $100k is considered livin' large on MLS payscale. Take a look at the list. There a lot of $40k players out there struggling to make ends meet. Living in apartments driving old Hondas. We have a long way to go...but, we'll get there....


http://www.altiusdirectory.com/Sports/mls-salaries.php

finish1 wrote:Right, and $100k is considered livin' large on MLS payscale. Take a look at the list. There a lot of $40k players out there struggling to make ends meet. Living in apartments driving old Hondas. We have a long way to go...but, we'll get there....


http://www.altiusdirectory.com/Sports/mls-salaries.php

Looks like a minor league salary listing with the exception of a few rookies making $7,000,000 a year. Given how short athletic careers are, the chance to do it for $20K per year for a while would be worth the experience - you can't get that opportunity again.

I hope that $800K included quite a bit of administrative/consulting work for something - although, it could be to prevent him from leaving.

How much do you think it would cost to pay an experienced Brazilian, Argentina, French, German(...) coach who started playing soccer at 3 in his backyard, practiced every week for 30 years and played professional soccer in his life ? Somebody who has been exposed to something else than US soccer ?