The board is quiet and so I thought I would open up and see what people are thinking about the various teams and how they look to be shaping up. I remember the board saying it was generally quite a few releases that were signed. Any thoughts on some of the biggest gaining and losing teams?
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Board Quiet: Thoughts On Last Few Tournaments?
SoccerXXX- Posts: 272
Join date: 2010-04-02
coaches pet- Posts: 132
Join date: 2011-04-27
Are the Bandits still going to have a team next season?
Cranky- Posts: 35
Join date: 2009-07-01
no
SoccerXXX- Posts: 272
Join date: 2010-04-02
So with verification of Bandits not coming back next year to Classic can anyone let the board know what happens. I assume that Tigres (11th in Classic) go to D1. For D2 does FWFC (19th in Classic) stay, TFC White (20th) go to D3 and FCD Suarez and Chivas move up to D2?
I assume that 3 spots open up for challenge tournament.
Am I wrong?
I assume that 3 spots open up for challenge tournament.
Am I wrong?
my2cents- Posts: 816
Join date: 2009-07-01
No there will only be two spots open for challenge. 11th moves to D1, the 21st team wiill be in D2 next year and the second to last team will get a repreive and get to stay in next year's D3. That is usually what they do. That will leave two D3 spots open for challenge.
trinity
trinity- Posts: 7
Join date: 2010-02-08
I haven't been through this before so I don't know how it works in practice, but it appears that the Classic League Rules http://www.ccsai.org/documents/classic_league_rules_apr11final.pdf suggest that the second to last place team does not get a reprieve and that there would be three D3 spots open for challenge.
CL RULES – PAGE 11 OF 31
April 2011
6. Unfilled Invitations in the League. If any invitations (“Bye Positions”) go unfilled, the following will apply:
a. In U12-U19, if any Bye Position into the Classic League goes unfilled, the remaining invitees will be promoted up to fill those places. Any resulting vacancies in the Classic League will be filled through the Challenge Games. For example, if one of the 10 Bye Positions into U12/Division I is not filled, the club whose team finished in 11th place from U11 the previous year (which otherwise would have received an invitation to field a team in Division II of U12 the following year), will now be invited to field a team in Division I U12 the following year. NOTE: the 29th or 30th place team (9th or 10th in Division II) in U11 the previous year will not be promoted into a U12 Division III Bye Position because teams finishing in the last 2 places of the bottom division are not considered “invitees” for a Bye Position. If such circumstances arose prior to the beginning of the Challenge Games, such Challenge Games would be modified to accommodate the additional open position, and if such circumstances arose after the beginning of the Challenge Games, such open position would be filled through the Supplemental Challenge Games as provided below.
b. If any vacancies occur before the date of the Challenge Games, the Challenge Games may be modified to accommodate such circumstances. If such vacancies occur after the Challenge Games, Supplemental Challenge games may be held to accommodate such circumstances. If such vacancies occur after the start of the Supplemental Challenge Games, the Board of Directors will decide how to most equitably accommodate the circumstances.
CL RULES – PAGE 11 OF 31
April 2011
6. Unfilled Invitations in the League. If any invitations (“Bye Positions”) go unfilled, the following will apply:
a. In U12-U19, if any Bye Position into the Classic League goes unfilled, the remaining invitees will be promoted up to fill those places. Any resulting vacancies in the Classic League will be filled through the Challenge Games. For example, if one of the 10 Bye Positions into U12/Division I is not filled, the club whose team finished in 11th place from U11 the previous year (which otherwise would have received an invitation to field a team in Division II of U12 the following year), will now be invited to field a team in Division I U12 the following year. NOTE: the 29th or 30th place team (9th or 10th in Division II) in U11 the previous year will not be promoted into a U12 Division III Bye Position because teams finishing in the last 2 places of the bottom division are not considered “invitees” for a Bye Position. If such circumstances arose prior to the beginning of the Challenge Games, such Challenge Games would be modified to accommodate the additional open position, and if such circumstances arose after the beginning of the Challenge Games, such open position would be filled through the Supplemental Challenge Games as provided below.
b. If any vacancies occur before the date of the Challenge Games, the Challenge Games may be modified to accommodate such circumstances. If such vacancies occur after the Challenge Games, Supplemental Challenge games may be held to accommodate such circumstances. If such vacancies occur after the start of the Supplemental Challenge Games, the Board of Directors will decide how to most equitably accommodate the circumstances.
playhard- Posts: 60
Join date: 2009-06-21
I thought the Bandits coach takes the bye to either the Texans or Solar to cut a deal for his son.
Which means that either club will fill the bye up with kids and all teams stay where they were in standings.
Am I wrong??
Which means that either club will fill the bye up with kids and all teams stay where they were in standings.
Am I wrong??
off_the_woodwork- Posts: 172
Join date: 2010-07-27
- Post n°8
Re: Board Quiet: Thoughts On Last Few Tournaments?
off_the_woodwork on Mon May 16, 2011 10:06 pm
playhard wrote:I thought the Bandits coach takes the bye to either the Texans or Solar to cut a deal for his son.
Which means that either club will fill the bye up with kids and all teams stay where they were in standings.
Am I wrong??
Yes, you are wrong. The coach doesn't own the bye, the club does. If the club ceases to exist then the bye will also go away.
Also I somehow doubt the Bandit's coaches kid will end up on a team needing a D1 bye...
playhard- Posts: 60
Join date: 2009-06-21
off_the_woodwork wrote:playhard wrote:I thought the Bandits coach takes the bye to either the Texans or Solar to cut a deal for his son.
Which means that either club will fill the bye up with kids and all teams stay where they were in standings.
Am I wrong??
Yes, you are wrong. The coach doesn't own the bye, the club does. If the club ceases to exist then the bye will also go away.
Also I somehow doubt the Bandit's coaches kid will end up on a team needing a D1 bye...
Not if it's a merger between two clubs.
R1- Posts: 179
Join date: 2009-06-29
playhard wrote:off_the_woodwork wrote:playhard wrote:I thought the Bandits coach takes the bye to either the Texans or Solar to cut a deal for his son.
Which means that either club will fill the bye up with kids and all teams stay where they were in standings.
Am I wrong??
Yes, you are wrong. The coach doesn't own the bye, the club does. If the club ceases to exist then the bye will also go away.
Also I somehow doubt the Bandit's coaches kid will end up on a team needing a D1 bye...
Not if it's a merger between two clubs.
Thats what I was thinking too - the rules give broad discretion to the board in allowing a team/club to keep its bye if one club absorbed by another - basically its total discretion on the board's part. And since the Bandits only have one team that would be officially registered with the NTSSA/Classic, it wouldn't be hard to take over the club . . . just have the team switch uniforms.
ontherightside- Posts: 247
Join date: 2009-06-24
- Post n°11
Re: Board Quiet: Thoughts On Last Few Tournaments?
ontherightside on Tue May 17, 2011 8:55 am
What is happening with Andro Red? Same scenario?
soccer23- Posts: 324
Join date: 2010-08-09
my2cents wrote:No there will only be two spots open for challenge. 11th moves to D1, the 21st team wiill be in D2 next year and the second to last team will get a repreive and get to stay in next year's D3. That is usually what they do. That will leave two D3 spots open for challenge.
Teams 21 and 22 are already in D2 for next year.
I think, based on the rules quoted above, this is what happens:
Toros, who finished 11th and were in D2 for next year will now move up and be in D1. That leaves only 9 D2 teams (12-18th plus FCD-Suarez and Chivas). I think that 19th place - FWFC now takes the last D2 spot.
Then D3 will be TFC White plus U11 D2 (3-8th) for a total of 7 teams. Then instead of 2 teams getting a D3 invitation after the Challenge games, 3 teams will get invitations from the Challenge games.
If Andro Red goes the same way as the Bandits as rightside asked, then I think that we just do it all over again. ASG moves to D1, TFC White moves up to D2 and then 4 teams come in to D3 from the Challenge games.
That is my understanding. Someone please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
Last edited by soccer23 on Thu May 19, 2011 3:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
R1- Posts: 179
Join date: 2009-06-29
soccer23 wrote:my2cents wrote:No there will only be two spots open for challenge. 11th moves to D1, the 21st team wiill be in D2 next year and the second to last team will get a repreive and get to stay in next year's D3. That is usually what they do. That will leave two D3 spots open for challenge.
Teams 21 and 22 are already in D2 for next year.
I think, based on the rules quoted above, this is what happens:
Tigres, who finished 11th and were in D2 for next year will now move up and be in D1. That leaves only 9 D2 teams (12-18th plus FCD-Suarez and Chivas). I think that 19th place - FWFC now takes the last D2 spot.
Then D3 will be TFC White plus U11 D2 (3-8th) for a total of 7 teams. Then instead of 2 teams getting a D3 invitation after the Challenge games, 3 teams will get invitations from the Challenge games.
If Andro Red goes the same way as the Bandits as rightside asked, then I think that we just do it all over again. ASG moves to D1, TFC White moves up to D2 and then 4 teams come in to D3 from the Challenge games.
That is my understanding. Someone please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
I wouldn't hold your breath on those scenarios - I don't think anyone is moving up. Seems like the big clubs can get those byes by absorbing clubs/teams - my guess is that is exactly what will happen.
1) Bandits will likely be seen as an entire club moving to whatever club the coach and however many kids he still has left move to. So that bye will be taken by the club that takes over the Bandits. So it will still be their spot - just under whatever club they join (Texans, Solar, etc). The rules state that when an entire club is absorbed by another, the board can grant the new club the bye of the old club - even if they don't have 75% - because its not a single team moving, its an entire club - and they don't differentiate between 1 team clubs and 100 team clubs on this rule. So the truth is, its up to the board's discretion if the coach and several of his boys stay together and let a large club "acquire" the Bandits - by them joining the new club.
2) Andro Red might be able to keep 75% as they move, so they keep their spot if that happens. If not, there was already a thread where it was stated by someone who apparently works at the Classic board - that exceptions to the rules will happen on a case-by-case basis for Andromeda teams because it was such a large club that is going down. So even though nobody is going to purchase Andromeda - the board has already tipped its hand that it will let those teams that were formerly Andromeda keep their byes if they stay mostly together (even if they go somewhat below the 75% rule)- the board will make that determination team by team - my guess is they will keep enough kids together in a move to another club to keep their bye.
SoccerXXX- Posts: 272
Join date: 2010-04-02
R1 wrote:I wouldn't hold your breath on those scenarios - I don't think anyone is moving up. Seems like the big clubs can get those byes by absorbing clubs/teams - my guess is that is exactly what will happen.
1) Bandits will likely be seen as an entire club moving to whatever club the coach and however many kids he still has left move to. So that bye will be taken by the club that takes over the Bandits. So it will still be their spot - just under whatever club they join (Texans, Solar, etc). The rules state that when an entire club is absorbed by another, the board can grant the new club the bye of the old club - even if they don't have 75% - because its not a single team moving, its an entire club - and they don't differentiate between 1 team clubs and 100 team clubs on this rule. So the truth is, its up to the board's discretion if the coach and several of his boys stay together and let a large club "acquire" the Bandits - by them joining the new club.
2) Andro Red might be able to keep 75% as they move, so they keep their spot if that happens. If not, there was already a thread where it was stated by someone who apparently works at the Classic board - that exceptions to the rules will happen on a case-by-case basis for Andromeda teams because it was such a large club that is going down. So even though nobody is going to purchase Andromeda - the board has already tipped its hand that it will let those teams that were formerly Andromeda keep their byes if they stay mostly together (even if they go somewhat below the 75% rule)- the board will make that determination team by team - my guess is they will keep enough kids together in a move to another club to keep their bye.
In reading the rules and how the league has worked (at least from the soccer board perspective) I suspect R1 is right. I think it is not right to do scenario 1 but do agree with scenario 2 as in Andro's case it is not good to punish the kids/coach for the leadership's issue.
earbucket- Posts: 48
Join date: 2009-11-15
soccer23 wrote:my2cents wrote:No there will only be two spots open for challenge. 11th moves to D1, the 21st team wiill be in D2 next year and the second to last team will get a repreive and get to stay in next year's D3. That is usually what they do. That will leave two D3 spots open for challenge.
Teams 21 and 22 are already in D2 for next year.
I think, based on the rules quoted above, this is what happens:
Tigres, who finished 11th and were in D2 for next year will now move up and be in D1. That leaves only 9 D2 teams (12-18th plus FCD-Suarez and Chivas). I think that 19th place - FWFC now takes the last D2 spot.
Then D3 will be TFC White plus U11 D2 (3-8th) for a total of 7 teams. Then instead of 2 teams getting a D3 invitation after the Challenge games, 3 teams will get invitations from the Challenge games.
If Andro Red goes the same way as the Bandits as rightside asked, then I think that we just do it all over again. ASG moves to D1, TFC White moves up to D2 and then 4 teams come in to D3 from the Challenge games.
That is my understanding. Someone please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
I've heard the bottom two teams of D-2/D-3 (next year), Mitlan and Andro-McLemore are folding, so the challenge games will only have the four teams from Arlington and Plano.
Durty-Tackle- Posts: 74
Join date: 2011-02-22
- Post n°16
Re: Board Quiet: Thoughts On Last Few Tournaments?
Durty-Tackle on Tue May 17, 2011 3:14 pm
soccer23 wrote:my2cents wrote:No there will only be two spots open for challenge. 11th moves to D1, the 21st team wiill be in D2 next year and the second to last team will get a repreive and get to stay in next year's D3. That is usually what they do. That will leave two D3 spots open for challenge.
Teams 21 and 22 are already in D2 for next year.
I think, based on the rules quoted above, this is what happens:
Tigres, who finished 11th and were in D2 for next year will now move up and be in D1. That leaves only 9 D2 teams (12-18th plus FCD-Suarez and Chivas). I think that 19th place - FWFC now takes the last D2 spot.
Then D3 will be TFC White plus U11 D2 (3-8th) for a total of 7 teams. Then instead of 2 teams getting a D3 invitation after the Challenge games, 3 teams will get invitations from the Challenge games.
If Andro Red goes the same way as the Bandits as rightside asked, then I think that we just do it all over again. ASG moves to D1, TFC White moves up to D2 and then 4 teams come in to D3 from the Challenge games.
That is my understanding. Someone please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
I thought Tigres beat Andro White and earned the 10th D1 position.
playhard- Posts: 60
Join date: 2009-06-21
R1 is correct.
Bandits coach can take his bye wherever he wants.
Andro Red was granted n+1 instead of 75% and will take their bye to whichever club they will join.
Torros, who came out 11th will stay in their spot. Nobody is moving up or down!!
On a different note, is DC really taking Partain's 00s instead of KS?
Bandits coach can take his bye wherever he wants.
Andro Red was granted n+1 instead of 75% and will take their bye to whichever club they will join.
Torros, who came out 11th will stay in their spot. Nobody is moving up or down!!
On a different note, is DC really taking Partain's 00s instead of KS?
Marmaduke- Posts: 113
Join date: 2009-07-24
R1 wrote:soccer23 wrote:my2cents wrote:No there will only be two spots open for challenge. 11th moves to D1, the 21st team wiill be in D2 next year and the second to last team will get a repreive and get to stay in next year's D3. That is usually what they do. That will leave two D3 spots open for challenge.
Teams 21 and 22 are already in D2 for next year.
I think, based on the rules quoted above, this is what happens:
Tigres, who finished 11th and were in D2 for next year will now move up and be in D1. That leaves only 9 D2 teams (12-18th plus FCD-Suarez and Chivas). I think that 19th place - FWFC now takes the last D2 spot.
Then D3 will be TFC White plus U11 D2 (3-8th) for a total of 7 teams. Then instead of 2 teams getting a D3 invitation after the Challenge games, 3 teams will get invitations from the Challenge games.
If Andro Red goes the same way as the Bandits as rightside asked, then I think that we just do it all over again. ASG moves to D1, TFC White moves up to D2 and then 4 teams come in to D3 from the Challenge games.
That is my understanding. Someone please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
I wouldn't hold your breath on those scenarios - I don't think anyone is moving up. Seems like the big clubs can get those byes by absorbing clubs/teams - my guess is that is exactly what will happen.
1) Bandits will likely be seen as an entire club moving to whatever club the coach and however many kids he still has left move to. So that bye will be taken by the club that takes over the Bandits. So it will still be their spot - just under whatever club they join (Texans, Solar, etc). The rules state that when an entire club is absorbed by another, the board can grant the new club the bye of the old club - even if they don't have 75% - because its not a single team moving, its an entire club - and they don't differentiate between 1 team clubs and 100 team clubs on this rule. So the truth is, its up to the board's discretion if the coach and several of his boys stay together and let a large club "acquire" the Bandits - by them joining the new club.
2) Andro Red might be able to keep 75% as they move, so they keep their spot if that happens. If not, there was already a thread where it was stated by someone who apparently works at the Classic board - that exceptions to the rules will happen on a case-by-case basis for Andromeda teams because it was such a large club that is going down. So even though nobody is going to purchase Andromeda - the board has already tipped its hand that it will let those teams that were formerly Andromeda keep their byes if they stay mostly together (even if they go somewhat below the 75% rule)- the board will make that determination team by team - my guess is they will keep enough kids together in a move to another club to keep their bye.
1) The Bandits Club is made up of more than just the U11 boys. They have other younger teams that would need to also go with them to be a club "move/merger" I know a couple of their younger teams are looking to go in different directions.
Almost all their U11 boys are already practicing with other teams now. I doubt CL would grant them a bye for 3 kids.
2) What I heard from CL was that the Andro n+1 exception only holds true if Andro actually folds.
I guess we will find out in July when the board meets after all the bye paperwork is returned.
off_the_woodwork- Posts: 172
Join date: 2010-07-27
- Post n°19
Re: Board Quiet: Thoughts On Last Few Tournaments?
off_the_woodwork on Tue May 17, 2011 8:30 pm
playhard wrote:R1 is correct.
Bandits coach can take his bye wherever he wants.
Andro Red was granted n+1 instead of 75% and will take their bye to whichever club they will join.
Torros, who came out 11th will stay in their spot. Nobody is moving up or down!!
On a different note, is DC really taking Partain's 00s instead of KS?
You're still dreaming. Bandits bye won't go anywhere unless 75% of the boys go with it. Toros will move into D1 (probably not a good thing for them).
playhard- Posts: 60
Join date: 2009-06-21
off_the_woodwork wrote:playhard wrote:R1 is correct.
Bandits coach can take his bye wherever he wants.
Andro Red was granted n+1 instead of 75% and will take their bye to whichever club they will join.
Torros, who came out 11th will stay in their spot. Nobody is moving up or down!!
On a different note, is DC really taking Partain's 00s instead of KS?
You're still dreaming. Bandits bye won't go anywhere unless 75% of the boys go with it. Toros will move into D1 (probably not a good thing for them).
I am still not convinced.
I think that the Bandits can just merge with a club. In that case there is no need to uphold the 75% rule. Bandits coach can negotiate the best deal for himself and his son.
It's a one man/team show.
R1- Posts: 179
Join date: 2009-06-29
Marmaduke wrote:R1 wrote:soccer23 wrote:my2cents wrote:No there will only be two spots open for challenge. 11th moves to D1, the 21st team wiill be in D2 next year and the second to last team will get a repreive and get to stay in next year's D3. That is usually what they do. That will leave two D3 spots open for challenge.
Teams 21 and 22 are already in D2 for next year.
I think, based on the rules quoted above, this is what happens:
Tigres, who finished 11th and were in D2 for next year will now move up and be in D1. That leaves only 9 D2 teams (12-18th plus FCD-Suarez and Chivas). I think that 19th place - FWFC now takes the last D2 spot.
Then D3 will be TFC White plus U11 D2 (3-8th) for a total of 7 teams. Then instead of 2 teams getting a D3 invitation after the Challenge games, 3 teams will get invitations from the Challenge games.
If Andro Red goes the same way as the Bandits as rightside asked, then I think that we just do it all over again. ASG moves to D1, TFC White moves up to D2 and then 4 teams come in to D3 from the Challenge games.
That is my understanding. Someone please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
I wouldn't hold your breath on those scenarios - I don't think anyone is moving up. Seems like the big clubs can get those byes by absorbing clubs/teams - my guess is that is exactly what will happen.
1) Bandits will likely be seen as an entire club moving to whatever club the coach and however many kids he still has left move to. So that bye will be taken by the club that takes over the Bandits. So it will still be their spot - just under whatever club they join (Texans, Solar, etc). The rules state that when an entire club is absorbed by another, the board can grant the new club the bye of the old club - even if they don't have 75% - because its not a single team moving, its an entire club - and they don't differentiate between 1 team clubs and 100 team clubs on this rule. So the truth is, its up to the board's discretion if the coach and several of his boys stay together and let a large club "acquire" the Bandits - by them joining the new club.
2) Andro Red might be able to keep 75% as they move, so they keep their spot if that happens. If not, there was already a thread where it was stated by someone who apparently works at the Classic board - that exceptions to the rules will happen on a case-by-case basis for Andromeda teams because it was such a large club that is going down. So even though nobody is going to purchase Andromeda - the board has already tipped its hand that it will let those teams that were formerly Andromeda keep their byes if they stay mostly together (even if they go somewhat below the 75% rule)- the board will make that determination team by team - my guess is they will keep enough kids together in a move to another club to keep their bye.
1) The Bandits Club is made up of more than just the U11 boys. They have other younger teams that would need to also go with them to be a club "move/merger" I know a couple of their younger teams are looking to go in different directions.
Almost all their U11 boys are already practicing with other teams now. I doubt CL would grant them a bye for 3 kids.
2) What I heard from CL was that the Andro n+1 exception only holds true if Andro actually folds.
I guess we will find out in July when the board meets after all the bye paperwork is returned.
The other "teams" that play under the Bandits name are not select age - and don't play under the NTSSA - last I looked they play at PSA - not PYSA, so they aren't even registered with the NTSSA as teams.
The only "club" team for the Bandits is the 00 team. They couldn't transfer their 04's or 06's even if they wanted to. There is nothing to transfer. Anyway, no point in debating it, we'll just see how it goes down.
Sweeper20- Posts: 39
Join date: 2011-05-07
Your off base if you think that any teams will be "moving up", it is one team they can merge with anyone they want to and that club will get the bye.
Marmaduke- Posts: 113
Join date: 2009-07-24
Sweeper20 wrote:Your off base if you think that any teams will be "moving up", it is one team they can merge with anyone they want to and that club will get the bye.
The Bandits must retain 75% of their original roster if they move/merge with another club to retain the D1 bye. Otherwise, if they disband the bye will go #11 team.
JW cannot take 6 kids to another club and retain the bye. He needs at least 12 from last seasons roster to move together.
Now if he decides to keep the Bandits they will retain the bye regardless of the number of remaining original players.