striker6 wrote:
The younger we can introduce expert coaching, the better off we are as far as I’m concerned.
That is insane!!
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Do the kids need to Train More?
soccerrus2- Posts: 647
Join date: 2009-06-22
That is insane!!
donotquestion
donotquestion- Posts: 55
Join date: 2011-04-04
"Show me one kid who does NOT want to get better:) there is none"
I am not sure about that, maybe all the kids parent's want the kids to get better but I am not sure about all the kids wanting to get better.
But I agree with everything else you said.
I am not sure about that, maybe all the kids parent's want the kids to get better but I am not sure about all the kids wanting to get better.
But I agree with everything else you said.
happyfeet- Posts: 396
Join date: 2009-07-06
anselansel wrote:yawn, naive huh? you pick one or two teams out of the flotsam of rec and use that as general rebuttal? amateurish at best....
My apologies. As a board member and referee, I'm sure I don't see nearly the number of teams and games you do. Your experience shows in all of your well thought out posts.
forbin- Posts: 222
Join date: 2009-09-29
happyfeet wrote:anselansel wrote:yawn, naive huh? you pick one or two teams out of the flotsam of rec and use that as general rebuttal? amateurish at best....
My apologies. As a board member and referee, I'm sure I don't see nearly the number of teams and games you do. Your experience shows in all of your well thought out posts.
DragonStryker- Posts: 71
Join date: 2011-04-07
soccerrus2 wrote:striker6 wrote:
The younger we can introduce expert coaching, the better off we are as far as I’m concerned.
That is insane!!
You're right. It is insane for 99.9% of the population. It only makes sense for that 0.1% that has the drive, desire, and determination (and genetics) to make it to the national level, whether that means playing for a D1 college, the MNT, or at some professional level.
But if your goal is to give your child the best opportunity to make it to that level and you aren't willing to go this route, your child will be operating at a distinct disadvantage to those that do go this route.
Most won't improve at anywhere near the same rate kicking a ball around in their yard without first knowing how to properly kick the ball just as most would never learn how to properly swing a golf club without proper instruction. Sure, there are those individuals that are few and far between for which the motion largely comes naturally, but even those select few benefit greatly from expert coaching and instruction. And there's an even smaller minority that might make it without an ounce of instruction but they are far from the rule and as stated represent a distinctly small minority.
To think otherwise shows a distinct lack of knowledge of what it takes to make it to the professional or near professional level in any sport.
This isn't about making the game fun. This is about giving your child the best possible opportunity to succeed, and if the drive, determination, and dedication are there, winning and success will be the rewards which make the game fun for them. If your goal is simply to have fun playing soccer, the above simply doesn't apply. If your goal is to be the best, the above is a far more apt way to get there and starting earlier is better than later.
anselansel- Posts: 422
Join date: 2010-10-01
Location: driving a kid to practice again
I will give you some credit as a red, but board member? Bwaaaa!
jack0fspeed- Posts: 170
Join date: 2011-02-09
We finally understand in the US that skills just might be important in soccer. The next major leap we need to make is that creativity is equally important.
Until then, no amount of additional team or individual training is going have much of an impact. Think about the Dos Santos goal in the CONCACAF US v Mexico final. Ever see a US player do anything like that? Yet that's what wins a lot of soccer games at the highest levels. In the top leagues in the world, everyone has great skill. Creativity is what separates the greats from the goods.
Soccer is to sports as Jazz is to music. Playing scales is a necessary part of becoming a Jazz musician, but practicing improvising is what makes you a Jazz musician. In soccer it's much the same. Skills are important, but the creative application of those skills is what makes a great soccer player.
The way we practice in the US, as individuals and as teams, does not comprehend that concept at all.
Until then, no amount of additional team or individual training is going have much of an impact. Think about the Dos Santos goal in the CONCACAF US v Mexico final. Ever see a US player do anything like that? Yet that's what wins a lot of soccer games at the highest levels. In the top leagues in the world, everyone has great skill. Creativity is what separates the greats from the goods.
Soccer is to sports as Jazz is to music. Playing scales is a necessary part of becoming a Jazz musician, but practicing improvising is what makes you a Jazz musician. In soccer it's much the same. Skills are important, but the creative application of those skills is what makes a great soccer player.
The way we practice in the US, as individuals and as teams, does not comprehend that concept at all.
slampg- Posts: 231
Join date: 2010-10-13
striker6 wrote:
just as most would never learn how to properly swing a golf club without proper instruction.
That's why I can't break 100!
stangs- Posts: 19
Join date: 2011-04-13
Interesting that Dempsey is our best player and most creative by far, and he received very good training at parts of his career, but much of his learning was done with his brothers playing one on one in his backyard trying different moves.
jack0fspeed- Posts: 170
Join date: 2011-02-09
Here's another idea that I find funny:
Every team thinks they can copy the Barcelona model. It looks so simple ... just pass the ball around ... possesing the ball 75% of the time. Then score every once in awhile. The other team can't score because they don't have the ball. Yay!
Here's the problem with that idea ...
Barcelona has essentially built a team full of playmakers. They kind of remind me of the Sacramento Kings NBA team circa 2003. In basketball, your PF and your Center aren't usually guys that can make plays. But on Sacramento they had Chris Webber and Vlade Divac ... both really really good playmakers for their position. That allowed them to play a style that no other team has has been able to duplicate.
Most soccer teams are lucky to have one or two of that type of player on their team. You are not going to play a style based on passing if you don't have a team full of great passers.
Now ... did Barcelona do that on purpose or was it a happy accident? More importantly can it be duplicated over the a period of decades if you develop that type of player (weeding out the ones that can't play that way) and then focus your training on that type of game? And is that even a good idea?
It seems to me that the thing to do is to put more emphasis in general on the improvisational part of the game. If it turns out that your best and most creative players are all great passers then yeah ... the Barca model could be for you. But I'm guessing that most of the time your best and most creative players are going to have more varied skillsets ... to which you then want to play the style that best suits them.
Every team thinks they can copy the Barcelona model. It looks so simple ... just pass the ball around ... possesing the ball 75% of the time. Then score every once in awhile. The other team can't score because they don't have the ball. Yay!
Here's the problem with that idea ...
Barcelona has essentially built a team full of playmakers. They kind of remind me of the Sacramento Kings NBA team circa 2003. In basketball, your PF and your Center aren't usually guys that can make plays. But on Sacramento they had Chris Webber and Vlade Divac ... both really really good playmakers for their position. That allowed them to play a style that no other team has has been able to duplicate.
Most soccer teams are lucky to have one or two of that type of player on their team. You are not going to play a style based on passing if you don't have a team full of great passers.
Now ... did Barcelona do that on purpose or was it a happy accident? More importantly can it be duplicated over the a period of decades if you develop that type of player (weeding out the ones that can't play that way) and then focus your training on that type of game? And is that even a good idea?
It seems to me that the thing to do is to put more emphasis in general on the improvisational part of the game. If it turns out that your best and most creative players are all great passers then yeah ... the Barca model could be for you. But I'm guessing that most of the time your best and most creative players are going to have more varied skillsets ... to which you then want to play the style that best suits them.
Keeper96- Posts: 52
Join date: 2010-11-01
soccerrus2 wrote:striker6 wrote:
The younger we can introduce expert coaching, the better off we are as far as I’m concerned.
That is insane!!
Depends on how you define "expert coaching".
For younger kids expertise needs to be more in "young kids" fitness/psychology,
The older kids get, the more expertise needs to shift toward particular sport (soccer) coaching.
Some coaches, having great soccer coaching skills miserably fail at coaching team, because they have no clue about "what kids really are" and trying to treat them as adults, which is wrong often even with teenagers.
Keeper96- Posts: 52
Join date: 2010-11-01
donotquestion wrote:"Show me one kid who does NOT want to get better:) there is none"
I am not sure about that, maybe all the kids parent's want the kids to get better but I am not sure about all the kids wanting to get better.
But I agree with everything else you said.
May be true about particular sport.
But I meant "show me kid who does NOT want to get better in something he likes doing".
If he doesn't, it is pathology...
Applying to this forum, if kid does not like soccer, he does not need to train in soccer "period".
In this case, parents need to revisit their priorities.
happyfeet- Posts: 396
Join date: 2009-07-06
jack0fspeed wrote:Here's another idea that I find funny:
Every team thinks they can copy the Barcelona model. It looks so simple ... just pass the ball around ... possesing the ball 75% of the time. Then score every once in awhile. The other team can't score because they don't have the ball. Yay!
Here's the problem with that idea ...
Barcelona has essentially built a team full of playmakers. They kind of remind me of the Sacramento Kings NBA team circa 2003. In basketball, your PF and your Center aren't usually guys that can make plays. But on Sacramento they had Chris Webber and Vlade Divac ... both really really good playmakers for their position. That allowed them to play a style that no other team has has been able to duplicate.
And yet, they have never won the title. So sad....
chriswhit- Posts: 47
Join date: 2009-06-24
The short answer is "it depends" to the question of "Do kids need to train more?". There is no exact formuala. That said, I do strongly believe in two key principles:
1. To succeed at anything in life, takes practice...outside of a formal setting. Sports, work...whatever.
2. Ultimate success will depend on taking over responsibility of one's actions.
I know of a 10 or 11 year old phenom who would practice 7 days a week in a formal setting if he could, but short of that, does something with a soccer ball for hours daily. I also know of a parent who forced his kid to practice two hours a day, made him cry daily, made him hate the sport...yet he played soccer in college, got conference MVPs and now plays professionally. Polar opposite examples...player driven vs. parent driven and most of us fit in between. What's common? Practice. How much? Depends on the age, temperament, maturity level, wants, needs, etc. of the kid (not the parent).
I think a little push here and there is healthy at the younger ages...teaches them that anything worth doing, is worth doing well, which of course takes...(drum roll)... Practice. Then hopefully, at the right time (whenever that is), THEY will take ownership in reaching their goals (whatever that is). Clearly, based on the two examples above, ownership was taken at a very early age by one kid and a very late age by another...So anything in between can work too, but in both extreme examples...practice was not just a formal training session a few times a week.
1. To succeed at anything in life, takes practice...outside of a formal setting. Sports, work...whatever.
2. Ultimate success will depend on taking over responsibility of one's actions.
I know of a 10 or 11 year old phenom who would practice 7 days a week in a formal setting if he could, but short of that, does something with a soccer ball for hours daily. I also know of a parent who forced his kid to practice two hours a day, made him cry daily, made him hate the sport...yet he played soccer in college, got conference MVPs and now plays professionally. Polar opposite examples...player driven vs. parent driven and most of us fit in between. What's common? Practice. How much? Depends on the age, temperament, maturity level, wants, needs, etc. of the kid (not the parent).
I think a little push here and there is healthy at the younger ages...teaches them that anything worth doing, is worth doing well, which of course takes...(drum roll)... Practice. Then hopefully, at the right time (whenever that is), THEY will take ownership in reaching their goals (whatever that is). Clearly, based on the two examples above, ownership was taken at a very early age by one kid and a very late age by another...So anything in between can work too, but in both extreme examples...practice was not just a formal training session a few times a week.
scrdad- Posts: 301
Join date: 2010-06-22
happyfeet wrote:jack0fspeed wrote:Here's another idea that I find funny:
Every team thinks they can copy the Barcelona model. It looks so simple ... just pass the ball around ... possesing the ball 75% of the time. Then score every once in awhile. The other team can't score because they don't have the ball. Yay!
Here's the problem with that idea ...
Barcelona has essentially built a team full of playmakers. They kind of remind me of the Sacramento Kings NBA team circa 2003. In basketball, your PF and your Center aren't usually guys that can make plays. But on Sacramento they had Chris Webber and Vlade Divac ... both really really good playmakers for their position. That allowed them to play a style that no other team has has been able to duplicate.
And yet, they have never won the title. So sad....
Heck, they never even played for the title!
Ajax- Posts: 8
Join date: 2011-03-29
You guys convinced me...they're not very good. They need to break it up and start over.
jack0fspeed- Posts: 170
Join date: 2011-02-09
happyfeet wrote:jack0fspeed wrote:Here's another idea that I find funny:
...
Barcelona has essentially built a team full of playmakers. They kind of remind me of the Sacramento Kings NBA team circa 2003. In basketball, your PF and your Center aren't usually guys that can make plays. But on Sacramento they had Chris Webber and Vlade Divac ... both really really good playmakers for their position. That allowed them to play a style that no other team has has been able to duplicate.
And yet, they have never won the title. So sad....
Don't get me started on that. They should have gone in 2002 but for NBA rigging Game 6 of the western Conference Finals.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A45678-2002Jun1