From a U16 D1 game today.
-Defender cleats up, no ball slide tackle, advantage signaled foul acknowlrdged verbally. defender gets up and immediatey does the same again. Both offenses had hard contact.No card.
- Keep is about to pick the ball to bring it to center for a goal kick and an offenive player taps the ball away. Cardable offense. Keeper then kicks the other player in the back of the leg. Cardable offense. Offensive player then turns and chests up with the keeper. Cardable offense. Keeper then violently pushes offensive player- cardable offense, possible red. Cards issued-none.
-Offensive player cuts last defender about 35 yards out from goal. The defender sticks his leg out backwards in a last ditch effort and trips the offensive player. Contact audible. Offensive player carded for flopping. What experienced ref thinks an offensive player flops 35 yards out with a clear path to the goal? Laughably horrible call.
-Keeper is about to punt a collected ball and is twice ordered to put his shin guard back on before he punts. The keeper stops, puts the shin back in, picks up the ball and is immediately called for a hand ball. On the ensuing indirect free kick a retake is given. The reason given was that the defense charged the touch not the kick. Really??? It ok though because the touch did not noticably move the ball but he made no mention of that.
- And the grand prize goes to..Offensive player mixed up with defender, off balance, is thrown to the ground with two hands on his back thus effectively body slamming him. no csll at all. In the following stoppage to attend to the injured player the ref announces to the enraged parents that he flopped and smirks at their protest as the player lies yards away writhing in pain. That "flop" resulted in a collarbone broken in two places and in need of surgery.
I have four refs in my family. I went out of my way twice yesterday to thank and compliment crews on a job well done. I usually get on here and defend the stripes. The center of this game had clearly lost control a mere 10 minutes into the game. The above instances are just the most ridiculous intances. He obviously was not qualified. Where is the oversight? The manner in which the game was officiated is unacceptable and flat out wrong. The price that young man is paying for such incompetence is tragic.

I agree that some refs need to have more "awareness" and positioning. But I think maintaining the control of the game is mostly the responsibility of the players and the coach. The players need to respect the game and the coaches need to insist that they do.

My son got a yellow card for tripping a player. He was already upset about getting an elbow to the face and the referee knew it and was waiting for the retaliation. When he got juked by his attacker, he stuck his leg out for the trip.

His coach pulled him.

That is how it's done.

It happens

Classic League definitely appears to have a shortage of refs who can competently center games for the older age groups (U15-19). Overall I would say there are still more good crews than bad ones but I have seen a couple of games this year that the ref clearly lost control by allowing things to get chippy early and it built from there.

It's annoying when it affects the outcome of a game (either for or against your team) but it is just sad when it results in preventable injuries. I wish they would be a little quicker with the verbal warnings and follow them up with cards. In their defense they have a pretty tough job as there seems to be a ton of diving going on in the U16 age group this season for some reason....coaching?

Classic League definitely appears to have a shortage of refs who can competently center games for the older age groups (U15-19). Overall I would say there are still more good crews than bad ones but I have seen a couple of games this year that the ref clearly lost control by allowing things to get chippy early and it built from there.

It's annoying when it affects the outcome of a game (either for or against your team) but it is just sad when it results in preventable injuries. I wish they would be a little quicker with the verbal warnings and follow them up with cards. In their defense they have a pretty tough job as there seems to be a ton of diving going on in the U16 age group this season for some reason....coaching?

There are competent refs for these games not getting called, even after offering. PHP was scrambling today to fill openings.

One reason its tough to find good solid, competent refs...

Because you have insane, irrational, irate parents charging onto the pitch to verbally assault them anytime a call doesn't go their way.

Yes, that happened in that same game today. And amazingly, that parent wasn't sent off. He just got a talking to by a field marshal.

And I might add, the other parents on that team should be ashamed of the actions of that individual. His actions were an embarrassment to the sport, to his son's team, and to Classic League.

Quite frankly, he's lucky I'm not Czar of Classic League, that individual would have not only been immediately sent off, he would have been immediately banned from setting foot on any property where a Classic League game was being played permanently (as in a lifetime ban).

End of day, I don't care how bad a call, or series of calls is, this is, at its base, just a game and life goes on tomorrow. The refs, like it or not, are doing the best they can in an utterly thankless job (though as the OP noted, they are sometimes thanked, though its fairly rare). Do they get calls wrong? Absolutely, no one is perfect. But they are doing their best. I won't argue that today's game got out of hand, it most certainly did, but the boys on the field weren't the only one's contributing to that and that should be pointed out if a discussion is going to occur.

my2cents wrote:From a U16 D1 game today.
-Defender cleats up, no ball slide tackle, advantage signaled foul acknowlrdged verbally. defender gets up and immediatey does the same again. Both offenses had hard contact.No card.
- Keep is about to pick the ball to bring it to center for a goal kick and an offenive player taps the ball away. Cardable offense. Keeper then kicks the other player in the back of the leg. Cardable offense. Offensive player then turns and chests up with the keeper. Cardable offense. Keeper then violently pushes offensive player- cardable offense, possible red. Cards issued-none.
-Offensive player cuts last defender about 35 yards out from goal. The defender sticks his leg out backwards in a last ditch effort and trips the offensive player. Contact audible. Offensive player carded for flopping. What experienced ref thinks an offensive player flops 35 yards out with a clear path to the goal? Laughably horrible call.
-Keeper is about to punt a collected ball and is twice ordered to put his shin guard back on before he punts. The keeper stops, puts the shin back in, picks up the ball and is immediately called for a hand ball. On the ensuing indirect free kick a retake is given. The reason given was that the defense charged the touch not the kick. Really??? It ok though because the touch did not noticably move the ball but he made no mention of that.
- And the grand prize goes to..Offensive player mixed up with defender, off balance, is thrown to the ground with two hands on his back thus effectively body slamming him. no csll at all. In the following stoppage to attend to the injured player the ref announces to the enraged parents that he flopped and smirks at their protest as the player lies yards away writhing in pain. That "flop" resulted in a collarbone broken in two places and in need of surgery.
I have four refs in my family. I went out of my way twice yesterday to thank and compliment crews on a job well done. I usually get on here and defend the stripes. The center of this game had clearly lost control a mere 10 minutes into the game. The above instances are just the most ridiculous intances. He obviously was not qualified. Where is the oversight? The manner in which the game was officiated is unacceptable and flat out wrong. The price that young man is paying for such incompetence is tragic.

As a referee and board member, I can very confidently say (and you should already know this if you have 4 refs in the family) that there is a very solid system for evaluation in the CL. Although I have been out of commission this season due to some surgery, I can tell you that last year it was not uncommon to have an assessor watching a referee a couple of times during the season. It all depends on the referee's skill level.
If the game was as bad as you say, there is a mechanism for complaint. On the CL website is a form that a COACH (not parent or manager) can fill out about the referee's performance. That will trigger an automatic assessment of that ref's next game. Fact is, the coaches rarely use it because they don't see a big of a problem as the expert parents. If some of the issues you refer to are accurate, I would encourage the coach to fill out the form.

BTW-my2cents team won the game by more then 2 goals so this is NOT a complaint from a losing team.

The lack of coaches filling this out indicate a few possibilities:

- belief that it won't matter
- indifference as to the reffing

I think it's likely the coaches just live with the officiating, which is probably a good attitude to adopt by most parents. Sometimes they are good/sometimes they are bad, injuries can occur in either scenario unfortunately (I've witnessed many more on legal plays, than illegal plays).

Can you even imagine if parents were allowed to submit referee assessments? That would be an interesting read.

Personally, I believe there is little to be done, I've witnessed a ref that was clearly over their head, injuries happening, parents out of control and the board member at the game was not the least helpful or supportive. I immediately did a 180 on how I felt about the overall management/control of the officiating in place.

It's very much like many political viewpoints - fun to discuss, but it will likely never be resolved/settled as there are differing opinions as to what is happening and what needs to happen.

I don't think coaching plays any part in the diving (only, perhaps the coach's reaction to a dive by his own player). Kids pick up that garbage from siblings/friends/television - every sport has similar 'tactics' and always has.

clueless wrote:The lack of coaches filling this out indicate a few possibilities:

- belief that it won't matter
- indifference as to the reffing

I think it's likely the coaches just live with the officiating, which is probably a good attitude to adopt by most parents. Sometimes they are good/sometimes they are bad, injuries can occur in either scenario unfortunately (I've witnessed many more on legal plays, than illegal plays).

Can you even imagine if parents were allowed to submit referee assessments? That would be an interesting read.

Personally, I believe there is little to be done, I've witnessed a ref that was clearly over their head, injuries happening, parents out of control and the board member at the game was not the least helpful or supportive. I immediately did a 180 on how I felt about the overall management/control of the officiating in place.

It's very much like many political viewpoints - fun to discuss, but it will likely never be resolved/settled as there are differing opinions as to what is happening and what needs to happen.

I don't think coaching plays any part in the diving (only, perhaps the coach's reaction to a dive by his own player). Kids pick up that garbage from siblings/friends/television - every sport has similar 'tactics' and always has.

I agree with all that except fot the coaching NOT playing a part in diving. Practiced? No, I doubt it. Encouraged? Absolutely, especially in the box.

happyfeet wrote:

my2cents wrote:From a U16 D1 game today.
-Defender cleats up, no ball slide tackle, advantage signaled foul acknowlrdged verbally. defender gets up and immediatey does the same again. Both offenses had hard contact.No card.
- Keep is about to pick the ball to bring it to center for a goal kick and an offenive player taps the ball away. Cardable offense. Keeper then kicks the other player in the back of the leg. Cardable offense. Offensive player then turns and chests up with the keeper. Cardable offense. Keeper then violently pushes offensive player- cardable offense, possible red. Cards issued-none.
-Offensive player cuts last defender about 35 yards out from goal. The defender sticks his leg out backwards in a last ditch effort and trips the offensive player. Contact audible. Offensive player carded for flopping. What experienced ref thinks an offensive player flops 35 yards out with a clear path to the goal? Laughably horrible call.
-Keeper is about to punt a collected ball and is twice ordered to put his shin guard back on before he punts. The keeper stops, puts the shin back in, picks up the ball and is immediately called for a hand ball. On the ensuing indirect free kick a retake is given. The reason given was that the defense charged the touch not the kick. Really??? It ok though because the touch did not noticably move the ball but he made no mention of that.
- And the grand prize goes to..Offensive player mixed up with defender, off balance, is thrown to the ground with two hands on his back thus effectively body slamming him. no csll at all. In the following stoppage to attend to the injured player the ref announces to the enraged parents that he flopped and smirks at their protest as the player lies yards away writhing in pain. That "flop" resulted in a collarbone broken in two places and in need of surgery.
I have four refs in my family. I went out of my way twice yesterday to thank and compliment crews on a job well done. I usually get on here and defend the stripes. The center of this game had clearly lost control a mere 10 minutes into the game. The above instances are just the most ridiculous intances. He obviously was not qualified. Where is the oversight? The manner in which the game was officiated is unacceptable and flat out wrong. The price that young man is paying for such incompetence is tragic.

As a referee and board member, I can very confidently say (and you should already know this if you have 4 refs in the family) that there is a very solid system for evaluation in the CL. Although I have been out of commission this season due to some surgery, I can tell you that last year it was not uncommon to have an assessor watching a referee a couple of times during the season. It all depends on the referee's skill level.
If the game was as bad as you say, there is a mechanism for complaint. On the CL website is a form that a COACH (not parent or manager) can fill out about the referee's performance. That will trigger an automatic assessment of that ref's next game. Fact is, the coaches rarely use it because they don't see a big of a problem as the expert parents. If some of the issues you refer to are accurate, I would encourage the coach to fill out the form.

Appreciate the reply happy. The hope that someone such as yourself or other board members would see the post was the only reason I put it up. The coach was quite upset and was supposed to be going to fill out the form and have the club president address it as well. I do know there is an active assessor program in place. I saw two out Saturday and our game was one they looked at. It does seem there may be a disconnect between assessments and assigning though. I truly do hope for the sake of the safety of the players there is an assessment and this ref can be assigned matches that are within his abilities. That is only fair to him and the players.
BTW If there truly is a shortage It may help if MR. Ramirez and Mr. Morrision answered emails. I know a ref hoping to move up, 21 years old with seven years experience, 3 years UIL, a CL referee recommendation, who emailed both multiple times this summer about reffing CL and got no reply at all. The CL link to Arbiter is a deadend without an invitation.

my2cents wrote:

happyfeet wrote:

my2cents wrote:From a U16 D1 game today.
-Defender cleats up, no ball slide tackle, advantage signaled foul acknowlrdged verbally. defender gets up and immediatey does the same again. Both offenses had hard contact.No card.
- Keep is about to pick the ball to bring it to center for a goal kick and an offenive player taps the ball away. Cardable offense. Keeper then kicks the other player in the back of the leg. Cardable offense. Offensive player then turns and chests up with the keeper. Cardable offense. Keeper then violently pushes offensive player- cardable offense, possible red. Cards issued-none.
-Offensive player cuts last defender about 35 yards out from goal. The defender sticks his leg out backwards in a last ditch effort and trips the offensive player. Contact audible. Offensive player carded for flopping. What experienced ref thinks an offensive player flops 35 yards out with a clear path to the goal? Laughably horrible call.
-Keeper is about to punt a collected ball and is twice ordered to put his shin guard back on before he punts. The keeper stops, puts the shin back in, picks up the ball and is immediately called for a hand ball. On the ensuing indirect free kick a retake is given. The reason given was that the defense charged the touch not the kick. Really??? It ok though because the touch did not noticably move the ball but he made no mention of that.
- And the grand prize goes to..Offensive player mixed up with defender, off balance, is thrown to the ground with two hands on his back thus effectively body slamming him. no csll at all. In the following stoppage to attend to the injured player the ref announces to the enraged parents that he flopped and smirks at their protest as the player lies yards away writhing in pain. That "flop" resulted in a collarbone broken in two places and in need of surgery.
I have four refs in my family. I went out of my way twice yesterday to thank and compliment crews on a job well done. I usually get on here and defend the stripes. The center of this game had clearly lost control a mere 10 minutes into the game. The above instances are just the most ridiculous intances. He obviously was not qualified. Where is the oversight? The manner in which the game was officiated is unacceptable and flat out wrong. The price that young man is paying for such incompetence is tragic.

As a referee and board member, I can very confidently say (and you should already know this if you have 4 refs in the family) that there is a very solid system for evaluation in the CL. Although I have been out of commission this season due to some surgery, I can tell you that last year it was not uncommon to have an assessor watching a referee a couple of times during the season. It all depends on the referee's skill level.
If the game was as bad as you say, there is a mechanism for complaint. On the CL website is a form that a COACH (not parent or manager) can fill out about the referee's performance. That will trigger an automatic assessment of that ref's next game. Fact is, the coaches rarely use it because they don't see a big of a problem as the expert parents. If some of the issues you refer to are accurate, I would encourage the coach to fill out the form.

Appreciate the reply happy. The hope that someone such as yourself or other board members would see the post was the only reason I put it up. The coach was quite upset and was supposed to be going to fill out the form and have the club president address it as well. I do know there is an active assessor program in place. I saw two out Saturday and our game was one they looked at. It does seem there may be a disconnect between assessments and assigning though. I truly do hope for the sake of the safety of the players there is an assessment and this ref can be assigned matches that are within his abilities. That is only fair to him and the players.
BTW If there truly is a shortage It may help if MR. Ramirez and Mr. Morrision answered emails. I know a ref hoping to move up, 21 years old with seven years experience, 3 years UIL, a CL referee recommendation, who emailed both multiple times this summer about reffing CL and got no reply at all. The CL link to Arbiter is a deadend without an invitation.

If there was an assessor there, I would imagine there was quite a discussion after the game. On the assessor's form, there is a spot to indicate what age and skill level the assessed referee is capable of handling. Please do have your coach submit the form. They ARE taken seriously...probably due to the fact that so few are turned in.
As for the new referee, try emailing Alan Sandler. He is the chairman of the referee committee. I have found Alan to be responsive in the past. If that doesn't work, pm me and I will handle it.

happyfeet wrote:

my2cents wrote:

happyfeet wrote:

my2cents wrote:From a U16 D1 game today.
-Defender cleats up, no ball slide tackle, advantage signaled foul acknowlrdged verbally. defender gets up and immediatey does the same again. Both offenses had hard contact.No card.
- Keep is about to pick the ball to bring it to center for a goal kick and an offenive player taps the ball away. Cardable offense. Keeper then kicks the other player in the back of the leg. Cardable offense. Offensive player then turns and chests up with the keeper. Cardable offense. Keeper then violently pushes offensive player- cardable offense, possible red. Cards issued-none.
-Offensive player cuts last defender about 35 yards out from goal. The defender sticks his leg out backwards in a last ditch effort and trips the offensive player. Contact audible. Offensive player carded for flopping. What experienced ref thinks an offensive player flops 35 yards out with a clear path to the goal? Laughably horrible call.
-Keeper is about to punt a collected ball and is twice ordered to put his shin guard back on before he punts. The keeper stops, puts the shin back in, picks up the ball and is immediately called for a hand ball. On the ensuing indirect free kick a retake is given. The reason given was that the defense charged the touch not the kick. Really??? It ok though because the touch did not noticably move the ball but he made no mention of that.
- And the grand prize goes to..Offensive player mixed up with defender, off balance, is thrown to the ground with two hands on his back thus effectively body slamming him. no csll at all. In the following stoppage to attend to the injured player the ref announces to the enraged parents that he flopped and smirks at their protest as the player lies yards away writhing in pain. That "flop" resulted in a collarbone broken in two places and in need of surgery.
I have four refs in my family. I went out of my way twice yesterday to thank and compliment crews on a job well done. I usually get on here and defend the stripes. The center of this game had clearly lost control a mere 10 minutes into the game. The above instances are just the most ridiculous intances. He obviously was not qualified. Where is the oversight? The manner in which the game was officiated is unacceptable and flat out wrong. The price that young man is paying for such incompetence is tragic.

As a referee and board member, I can very confidently say (and you should already know this if you have 4 refs in the family) that there is a very solid system for evaluation in the CL. Although I have been out of commission this season due to some surgery, I can tell you that last year it was not uncommon to have an assessor watching a referee a couple of times during the season. It all depends on the referee's skill level.
If the game was as bad as you say, there is a mechanism for complaint. On the CL website is a form that a COACH (not parent or manager) can fill out about the referee's performance. That will trigger an automatic assessment of that ref's next game. Fact is, the coaches rarely use it because they don't see a big of a problem as the expert parents. If some of the issues you refer to are accurate, I would encourage the coach to fill out the form.

Appreciate the reply happy. The hope that someone such as yourself or other board members would see the post was the only reason I put it up. The coach was quite upset and was supposed to be going to fill out the form and have the club president address it as well. I do know there is an active assessor program in place. I saw two out Saturday and our game was one they looked at. It does seem there may be a disconnect between assessments and assigning though. I truly do hope for the sake of the safety of the players there is an assessment and this ref can be assigned matches that are within his abilities. That is only fair to him and the players.
BTW If there truly is a shortage It may help if MR. Ramirez and Mr. Morrision answered emails. I know a ref hoping to move up, 21 years old with seven years experience, 3 years UIL, a CL referee recommendation, who emailed both multiple times this summer about reffing CL and got no reply at all. The CL link to Arbiter is a deadend without an invitation.

If there was an assessor there, I would imagine there was quite a discussion after the game. On the assessor's form, there is a spot to indicate what age and skill level the assessed referee is capable of handling. Please do have your coach submit the form. They ARE taken seriously...probably due to the fact that so few are turned in.
As for the new referee, try emailing Alan Sandler. He is the chairman of the referee committee. I have found Alan to be responsive in the past. If that doesn't work, pm me and I will handle it.

The assessor was at our Saturday game, the game in question was Sunday. I will follow up with all your recommendations. A sincere thank you.

Was this game at PHP or Richland? I saw a couple of interesting games yesterday.

was this the FCD vs Texans game?

No

SailorMoon wrote:Was this game at PHP or Richland? I saw a couple of interesting games yesterday.

What fields were they on? Can you at least tell us that? Morning or afternoon???

Solar vs ODY

I FOUND IT! I FOUND IT! There was a real, live, referee assessor, taking notes at the Classic games at PHP last weekend.

Soccerinsanity wrote:I FOUND IT! I FOUND IT! There was a real, live, referee assessor, taking notes at the Classic games at PHP last weekend.

Assessors are there just about every weekend.

But this time they were watching the games, not the hot soccer moms!

Whats ridiculous is that we all know who they are by what the assessor is wearing and the clipboard he is carrying. If I can see you so can the referees that are being assessed. It is amazing how much better and more attentive referee's are when they can see they guy with his clipboard watching... Lets try something new... How about referrer assessors go incognito and see how the referee's they are assessing do.

toffeemate wrote:Whats ridiculous is that we all know who they are by what the assessor is wearing and the clipboard he is carrying. If I can see you so can the referees that are being assessed. It is amazing how much better and more attentive referee's are when they can see they guy with his clipboard watching... Lets try something new... How about referrer assessors go incognito and see how the referee's they are assessing do.

What a silly post. One, the assessors don't wear any special clothing, two, they often show up after the half has started (do you think that the referee is constantly scanning the crowds for them?), three, do you really think a ref who is lacking in speed, fitness or judgement can just turn into a good referee...just like that? You clearly don't know much about reffing.

happyfeet wrote:

toffeemate wrote:Whats ridiculous is that we all know who they are by what the assessor is wearing and the clipboard he is carrying. If I can see you so can the referees that are being assessed. It is amazing how much better and more attentive referee's are when they can see they guy with his clipboard watching... Lets try something new... How about referrer assessors go incognito and see how the referee's they are assessing do.

What a silly post. One, the assessors don't wear any special clothing, two, they often show up after the half has started (do you think that the referee is constantly scanning the crowds for them?), three, do you really think a ref who is lacking in speed, fitness or judgement can just turn into a good referee...just like that? You clearly don't know much about reffing.

So he didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn?

Hey Happy, while I agree with you that they don't need to be incognito, etc....this assessor I saw was in a red shirt that had "Referee Assessor" and "Classic League" embroidered on it.

If they don't wear special shirts, oh my, does this mean that this was just an opponent's parent dressed to confuse the ref? He wasn't real? Now I'm so disappointed! I thought I had FOUND IT!

Soccerinsanity wrote:Hey Happy, while I agree with you that they don't need to be incognito, etc....this assessor I saw was in a red shirt that had "Referee Assessor" and "Classic League" embroidered on it.

If they don't wear special shirts, oh my, does this mean that this was just an opponent's parent dressed to confuse the ref? He wasn't real? Now I'm so disappointed! I thought I had FOUND IT!

FYI - I picked up a shirt at Marshalls that had a patch with USSF Youth Scouting Director on it - our coach made me wear it weekly due to its affect on the kids and parents.

I'd suggest just bringing a clipboard and sitting off the endline and this might improve your referee performance.

Soccerinsanity wrote:Hey Happy, while I agree with you that they don't need to be incognito, etc....this assessor I saw was in a red shirt that had "Referee Assessor" and "Classic League" embroidered on it.

If they don't wear special shirts, oh my, does this mean that this was just an opponent's parent dressed to confuse the ref? He wasn't real? Now I'm so disappointed! I thought I had FOUND IT!

I saw thing same thing you did,red shirt that had Referee Assessor on it.

Some wear them...most don't. You didn't address the other two points, I see.

happyfeet wrote:Some wear them...most don't. You didn't address the other two points, I see.

I just happened to notice him,I don't make it a habit to go looking for them. As for knowing the laws of the game I do have a clue since I went a earned my Grade 8 license. Sad to say I haven't been able to use it due to an ongoing illness. Best Wishes.