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SDL REFS

bigD17

bigD17: Posts: 17
Join date: 2011-09-25

Post n°1

SDL REFS

bigD17 on Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:19 am

I SAW A VERY GOOD GAME IN SDL OVER THE WEEKEND AND HEARD A PARENT TELL HIS SON TO STOP WALKING BACK ON DEFENSE AND TO COVER HIS MAN BECAUSE HIS SON WAS DOGGING IT A LITTLE. THE REF TOLD THE PARENT NOT TO "COACH THE PLAYER ". THE REF THREATENED TO THROW THE PARENT OUT WHEN THE PARENT SAID "THAT'S NOT A RULE"
I THINK THE REF WAS OUT OF LINE. THE PARENT WASN'T COACHING THE PLAYER, HE WAS TELLING HIM TO PICK IT UP BECAUSE HE WAS HURTING THE TEAM. I FEEL LIKE THE REFS ARE WAY TOO SENSITIVE AND THEY WANT EVERYBODY TO ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR ALMIGHTY AUTHORITY. MAYBE I'M OUT OF LINE FOR FEELING LIKE THAT, BUT I'M CURIOUS WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK.

Soccerinsanity

Soccerinsanity: Posts: 394
Join date: 2010-07-02

Post n°2

Re: SDL REFS

Soccerinsanity on Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:23 am

What the parent told the player would improve his performance...sorry, that's coaching

bigD17

bigD17: Posts: 17
Join date: 2011-09-25

Post n°3

Re: SDL REFS

bigD17 on Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:27 am

Soccerinsanity wrote:What the parent told the player would improve his performance...sorry, that's coaching

Is that a rule?

7thHeaven

7thHeaven: Posts: 20
Join date: 2009-06-22

Post n°4

Re: SDL REFS

7thHeaven on Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:45 am

bigD17 wrote:
Soccerinsanity wrote:What the parent told the player would improve his performance...sorry, that's coaching

Is that a rule?

From the SDL website:
PARENT CODE OF CONDUCT

I will remember that I am my child’s most important role model.
I will stress to my child and demonstrate by my behavior the importance of good sportsmanship toward coaches, other players, parents, and officials.
I will place the emotional well-being of all the children ahead of a personal desire to win.
I will respect the coaches and allow them to coach and instruct the players during the game without my interference.
I understand that I am accountable for my behavior at the game and that I will adhere to the spirit of this Parent Code of Conduct.

bigD17

bigD17: Posts: 17
Join date: 2011-09-25

Post n°5

Re: SDL REFS

bigD17 on Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:51 am

7thHeaven wrote:
bigD17 wrote:
Soccerinsanity wrote:What the parent told the player would improve his performance...sorry, that's coaching

Is that a rule?

From the SDL website:
PARENT CODE OF CONDUCT

I will remember that I am my child’s most important role model.
I will stress to my child and demonstrate by my behavior the importance of good sportsmanship toward coaches, other players, parents, and officials.
I will place the emotional well-being of all the children ahead of a personal desire to win.
I will respect the coaches and allow them to coach and instruct the players during the game without my interference.
I understand that I am accountable for my behavior at the game and that I will adhere to the spirit of this Parent Code of Conduct.

That sounds like golf. I have never been to a soccer game (at this age 03)where the parents said nothing to the players.

Running

Running: Posts: 139
Join date: 2010-08-08

Post n°6

Re: SDL REFS

Running on Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:56 am

bigD17 wrote:
7thHeaven wrote:
bigD17 wrote:
Soccerinsanity wrote:What the parent told the player would improve his performance...sorry, that's coaching

Is that a rule?

From the SDL website:
PARENT CODE OF CONDUCT

I will remember that I am my child’s most important role model.
I will stress to my child and demonstrate by my behavior the importance of good sportsmanship toward coaches, other players, parents, and officials.
I will place the emotional well-being of all the children ahead of a personal desire to win.
I will respect the coaches and allow them to coach and instruct the players during the game without my interference.
I understand that I am accountable for my behavior at the game and that I will adhere to the spirit of this Parent Code of Conduct.

That sounds like golf. I have never been to a soccer game (at this age 03)where the parents said nothing to the players.

That is really part of the problem. Parents should not be yelling instructions at their kids, even if it is good instruction ie (mark, hustle, watch the back side)

The kids need to learn to do this on their own and think for themselves. They need to self motivate to stop dogging it.

I used to be a ranter and raver until one of my kids almost quit and told me he hated it. Now I do not say a single word. Not even for a great play, bad play, nothing, just silence from me. It is much more freeing to watch this way. The kid now loves it and has not gotten upset after games because I was rough on him during the game and yelling what to do.

Just my experience.

my2cents

my2cents: Posts: 816
Join date: 2009-07-01

Post n°7

Re: SDL REFS

my2cents on Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:19 am

bigD17 wrote: I SAW A VERY GOOD GAME IN SDL OVER THE WEEKEND AND HEARD A PARENT TELL HIS SON TO STOP WALKING BACK ON DEFENSE AND TO COVER HIS MAN BECAUSE HIS SON WAS DOGGING IT A LITTLE. THE REF TOLD THE PARENT NOT TO "COACH THE PLAYER ". THE REF THREATENED TO THROW THE PARENT OUT WHEN THE PARENT SAID "THAT'S NOT A RULE"
I THINK THE REF WAS OUT OF LINE. THE PARENT WASN'T COACHING THE PLAYER, HE WAS TELLING HIM TO PICK IT UP BECAUSE HE WAS HURTING THE TEAM. I FEEL LIKE THE REFS ARE WAY TOO SENSITIVE AND THEY WANT EVERYBODY TO ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR ALMIGHTY AUTHORITY. MAYBE I'M OUT OF LINE FOR FEELING LIKE THAT, BUT I'M CURIOUS WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK.

I do think your out of line(you asked). Evidently it is a league rule so you and the other parents should be aware of the rules of your league and adhere to them. If you don't then the ref IS the authority of the field and yes you should acknowledge it if your behavior forces him/her do have to interupt the game to deal with you. BTW I also think it is a great rule condsidering the most common coaching commnts from parents are
- "Kick the ball!!!!" I really think the kids have figured that part out.
- "SHOOT,SHOOT, SHOOT!!!!!!" I think they also figured out the shooting and scoring angle in this game.
-" Go get the ball!!!" Usually flat out bad advice that puts the player out of position.

Running

Running: Posts: 139
Join date: 2010-08-08

Post n°8

Re: SDL REFS

Running on Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:26 am

my2cents wrote:
bigD17 wrote: I SAW A VERY GOOD GAME IN SDL OVER THE WEEKEND AND HEARD A PARENT TELL HIS SON TO STOP WALKING BACK ON DEFENSE AND TO COVER HIS MAN BECAUSE HIS SON WAS DOGGING IT A LITTLE. THE REF TOLD THE PARENT NOT TO "COACH THE PLAYER ". THE REF THREATENED TO THROW THE PARENT OUT WHEN THE PARENT SAID "THAT'S NOT A RULE"
I THINK THE REF WAS OUT OF LINE. THE PARENT WASN'T COACHING THE PLAYER, HE WAS TELLING HIM TO PICK IT UP BECAUSE HE WAS HURTING THE TEAM. I FEEL LIKE THE REFS ARE WAY TOO SENSITIVE AND THEY WANT EVERYBODY TO ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR ALMIGHTY AUTHORITY. MAYBE I'M OUT OF LINE FOR FEELING LIKE THAT, BUT I'M CURIOUS WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK.

I do think your out of line(you asked). Evidently it is a league rule so you and the other parents should be aware of the rules of your league and adhere to them. If you don't then the ref IS the authority of the field and yes you should acknowledge it if your behavior forces him/her do have to interupt the game to deal with you. BTW I also think it is a great rule condsidering the most common coaching commnts from parents are
- "Kick the ball!!!!" I really think the kids have figured that part out.
- "SHOOT,SHOOT, SHOOT!!!!!!" I think they also figured out the shooting and scoring angle in this game.
-" Go get the ball!!!" Usually flat out bad advice that puts the player out of position.

Me personal favorites are :

"JUST BOOT IT!!!" followed by great cheers when a kid just kicks it hard, but right to the other team,

"PASS,PASS,PASS"

"SWITCH IT" While a kid has three players on him,

and,

"RUN FASTER" Like a kid wants to run slow.

I could not agree more with you by the way. I was guilty of all of the above in the past.

"

Refmike

Refmike: Posts: 53
Join date: 2009-08-05

Post n°9

Re: SDL REFS

Refmike on Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:58 am

Running wrote:
my2cents wrote:
bigD17 wrote: I SAW A VERY GOOD GAME IN SDL OVER THE WEEKEND AND HEARD A PARENT TELL HIS SON TO STOP WALKING BACK ON DEFENSE AND TO COVER HIS MAN BECAUSE HIS SON WAS DOGGING IT A LITTLE. THE REF TOLD THE PARENT NOT TO "COACH THE PLAYER ". THE REF THREATENED TO THROW THE PARENT OUT WHEN THE PARENT SAID "THAT'S NOT A RULE"
I THINK THE REF WAS OUT OF LINE. THE PARENT WASN'T COACHING THE PLAYER, HE WAS TELLING HIM TO PICK IT UP BECAUSE HE WAS HURTING THE TEAM. I FEEL LIKE THE REFS ARE WAY TOO SENSITIVE AND THEY WANT EVERYBODY TO ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR ALMIGHTY AUTHORITY. MAYBE I'M OUT OF LINE FOR FEELING LIKE THAT, BUT I'M CURIOUS WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK.

I do think your out of line(you asked). Evidently it is a league rule so you and the other parents should be aware of the rules of your league and adhere to them. If you don't then the ref IS the authority of the field and yes you should acknowledge it if your behavior forces him/her do have to interupt the game to deal with you. BTW I also think it is a great rule condsidering the most common coaching commnts from parents are
- "Kick the ball!!!!" I really think the kids have figured that part out.
- "SHOOT,SHOOT, SHOOT!!!!!!" I think they also figured out the shooting and scoring angle in this game.
-" Go get the ball!!!" Usually flat out bad advice that puts the player out of position.

Me personal favorites are :

"JUST BOOT IT!!!" followed by great cheers when a kid just kicks it hard, but right to the other team,

"PASS,PASS,PASS"

"SWITCH IT" While a kid has three players on him,

and,

"RUN FASTER" Like a kid wants to run slow.

I could not agree more with you by the way. I was guilty of all of the above in the past.

"

Other gems might include:
"Anticipate!"
"Get there"
"man on!"

To the original poster, I would say if parents are not being told to "shut it" at every game, then perhaps it is a particular ref, and not referees in general. Parents should be able to talk to their own children but nobody else's, if it is not abusive. If you look at the higher levels of the game, and the ones with the really good referees, the code of conduct on the filed is enforced, and the only coaching is done from the technical area, but he fans are free to say what they want, within reason, of course, except in Philadelphia, where of course, the nasty comments come with batteries packed inside them.
Rm

Number13

Number13: Posts: 165
Join date: 2010-08-24

Post n°10

Re: SDL REFS

Number13 on Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:59 pm

Soccerinsanity wrote:What the parent told the player would improve his performance...sorry, that's coaching

Coaching is a mix of positive and negative reinforcement. If this is your interpretation of the rules, can I say "Good pass" or "nice hustle" or "even "your shoe is untied"? That could all improve performance. I even say these things to kids on the other team, so imagine the confusion. Can I tell them things that will hurt their performance or is that coaching as well? (chance to chime in and say, that is coaching if XXX is your coach) As others pointed out, getting coaching from Dad does not always equal better performance.

The issue, as I see it, is consistency and the (in)ability of refs/people to discern the letter/spirit of the law. People have wildly varying tones and decibel levels about it, but there is not a SINGLE parent on the sideline that is not violating the absolute letter of the law. Getting on a parent who says "run hard"....in the grand context of things said...is a bit overboard. If the parent is disruptive or profane or is expressing poor sportsmanship or threatening kids or telling his son to "slide through the ball" then, yeah, tell him to get bent. But picking out one relatively subdued parent in the great maelstrom of parental coaches and saying "this guy was coaching!" is a slippery slope. If you are going to tell a parent to shut up for that, you are going to be spending half the game telling parents to shut up.

I'd like to see the SDL refs as interested in on-the-pitch discipline as off-the-pitch discipline. That said, no doubt, if the ref tells you to shut up, he's the authority at the fields. So I guess you shut up.

I was not at this game and have no direct knowledge of these events.

Last edited by Number13 on Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

SoccerDad12

SoccerDad12: Posts: 40
Join date: 2010-07-14

Post n°11

Re: SDL REFS

SoccerDad12 on Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:12 pm

Number13 wrote:
Soccerinsanity wrote:What the parent told the player would improve his performance...sorry, that's coaching

Coaching is a mix of positive and negative reinforcement. If this is your interpretation of the rules, can I say "Good pass" or "nice hustle" or "even "your shoe is untied"? That could all improve performance. I even say these things to kids on the other team, so imagine the confusion. Can I tell them things that will hurt their performance or is that coaching as well? (chance to chime in and say, that is coaching if XXX is your coach) As others pointed out, getting coaching from Dad does not always equal better performance.

The issue, as I see it, is consistency and the (in)ability of refs/people to discern the letter/spirit of the law. People have wildly varying tones and decibel levels about it, but there is not a SINGLE parent on the sideline that is not violating the absolute letter of the law. Getting on a parent who says "run hard"....in the grand context of things said...is a bit overboard. If the parent is disruptive or profane or is expressing poor sportsmanship or threatening kids or telling his son to "slide through the ball" then, yeah, tell him to get bent. But picking out one relatively subdued parent in the great maelstrom of parental coaches and saying "this guy was coaching!" is a slippery slope. If you are going to tell a parent to shut up for that, you are going to be spending half the game telling parents to shut up.

I'd like to see the SDL refs as interested in on-the-pitch discipline as off-the-pitch discipline. That said, no doubt, if the ref tells you to shut up, he's the authority at the fields. So I guess you shut up.

I was not at this game and have direct knowledge of these events.

It's simply not the Ref's responsibility to enforce the "Parent Code of Conduct" unless the behavior is being disruptive to one of the games participants. The latter would be considered interpreting and enforcing a "Rule". Rabbit ears on an official aren't a good thing in any sport. The Ref needs to shut his/her yapper and discuss with the Coach if he believes a Parent is out of line by suggesting that the kid hustle or whatever. This guy had his hands full with what was happening on the field. To adjust his attention to what was being said by a Parent on the sidelines... well.. that's not going to be a good thing. I was at the game. In general, these two Ref's did just fine. I did comment to the "other" official that her partner wasn't having a particularly good game. Maybe it was because we weren't getting his entire focus. Who knows.

Soccerinsanity

Soccerinsanity: Posts: 394
Join date: 2010-07-02

Post n°12

Re: SDL REFS

Soccerinsanity on Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:24 pm

If you were commenting to the other ref, sounds like there was a lot of parental talking going on?

The refs are taught to maintain control of the game, on all sides of the field and in the middle. If a parent is out of line, the ref has the choice to either talk to the coach or the parent directly...but make no mistake about it, the ref can remove you, and even end the game.
You won't win your argument; it's the ref's perception that counts in this situation.

And talking to the other ref won't help. They are all just assigned to do the game. None of them are a boss for the others, unless you happen to have the referee assignor as your center ref.

Number13

Number13: Posts: 165
Join date: 2010-08-24

Post n°13

Re: SDL REFS

Number13 on Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:29 pm

Soccerinsanity wrote:If you were commenting to the other ref, sounds like there was a lot of parental talking going on?

He is the assistant coach.

Soccerinsanity

Soccerinsanity: Posts: 394
Join date: 2010-07-02

Post n°14

Re: SDL REFS

Soccerinsanity on Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:05 pm

Someone else can correct me, but usually, leagues only accept complaints about officials from the head coach. Is SDL different?

And same message, you're barking at a powerless tree if you think complaining to one ref about the other ref will resolve anything. They are assigned to work together, neither is the assignor.

Oh, and refs have the right to throw the asst. coach off the field, too! Rolling Eyes

omega striker

omega striker: Posts: 2078
Join date: 2009-07-02

Post n°15

Re: SDL REFS

omega striker on Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:11 pm

Soccerinsanity wrote:Someone else can correct me, but usually, leagues only accept complaints about officials from the head coach. Is SDL different?

And same message, you're barking at a powerless tree if you think complaining to one ref about the other ref will resolve anything. They are assigned to work together, neither is the assignor.

Oh, and refs have the right to throw the asst. coach off the field, too!

spoken like a true REF!!!!!!! Laughing

Soccerinsanity

Soccerinsanity: Posts: 394
Join date: 2010-07-02

Post n°16

Re: SDL REFS

Soccerinsanity on Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:49 pm

LOL! I've been accused of lots of things but never being a ref! We all know you're just a whiny parent Omega!

omega striker

omega striker: Posts: 2078
Join date: 2009-07-02

Post n°17

Re: SDL REFS

omega striker on Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:57 pm

Soccerinsanity wrote:LOL! I've been accused of lots of things but never being a ref! We all know you're just a whiny parent Omega!

well what do you guys expect,my kid is slow,un fit,cant kick to save his hide and im stuck on a big club in PPL D3!!!! of course im whiney and bitter! Sad

Soccerinsanity

Soccerinsanity: Posts: 394
Join date: 2010-07-02

Post n°18

Re: SDL REFS

Soccerinsanity on Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:26 pm

I'm sorry, Omega, didn't mean to make you feel bad. I'm certain your bb just needs time to grow. With a little meat on him so others don't push him around, he'll become a great player. Just give him some time!

omega striker

omega striker: Posts: 2078
Join date: 2009-07-02

Post n°19

Re: SDL REFS

omega striker on Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:27 pm

Soccerinsanity wrote:I'm sorry, Omega, didn't mean to make you feel bad. I'm certain your bb just needs time to grow. With a little meat on him so others don't push him around, he'll become a great player. Just give him some time!

yea i know but where does he get theses great skills,speed,size,strength and power that everyone says you have to have to be even mentioned for D1 muchless PA or whatever and how much does it cost? Crying or Very sad

Soccerinsanity

Soccerinsanity: Posts: 394
Join date: 2010-07-02

Post n°20

Re: SDL REFS

Soccerinsanity on Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:40 pm

Lots of people swear by the backyard method. Just find a friendly dad that will take your kid under his wing and teach him...if you aren't a player yourself.

omega striker

omega striker: Posts: 2078
Join date: 2009-07-02

Post n°21

Re: SDL REFS

omega striker on Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:12 pm

Soccerinsanity wrote:Lots of people swear by the backyard method. Just find a friendly dad that will take your kid under his wing and teach him...if you aren't a player yourself.

who do you recommend? sunny

Soccerinsanity

Soccerinsanity: Posts: 394
Join date: 2010-07-02

Post n°22

Re: SDL REFS

Soccerinsanity on Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:57 am

Just go to your local "handyman" store...they carry quality dads there Very Happy

omega striker

omega striker: Posts: 2078
Join date: 2009-07-02

Post n°23

Re: SDL REFS

omega striker on Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:25 am

Soccerinsanity wrote:Just go to your local "handyman" store...they carry quality dads there

Jogabonita

Jogabonita: Posts: 15
Join date: 2010-08-25

Post n°24

Re: SDL REFS

Jogabonita on Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:49 am

The sad part of the game where the referee to the parent not to say hustle is that they blatantly missed 2 obvious corner kicks, one went of the goalie's hands out of bounds and the other ws kicked out by a defender. I would say priority number 1 for the referee is the game, and number 2 is the sidelines. Obviously doing both is a bit to ask for. I do agree to let the kids play the game as it is the best teacher, but every now and then I need to give a quick, once every other game, a "work hard". Even as adults we need a quick "move your a-- and put the cold beer or glass of wine down" from the wife or "what were you thinking from our mom and dad" lol. I actually believe the sidelines were quiet by both teams as the game was being played.

Ochocinco

Ochocinco: Posts: 103
Join date: 2010-11-12

Post n°25

Re: SDL REFS

Ochocinco on Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:37 pm

Jogabonita wrote:The sad part of the game where the referee to the parent not to say hustle is that they blatantly missed 2 obvious corner kicks, one went of the goalie's hands out of bounds and the other ws kicked out by a defender. I would say priority number 1 for the referee is the game, and number 2 is the sidelines. Obviously doing both is a bit to ask for. I do agree to let the kids play the game as it is the best teacher, but every now and then I need to give a quick, once every other game, a "work hard". Even as adults we need a quick "move your a-- and put the cold beer or glass of wine down" from the wife or "what were you thinking from our mom and dad" lol. I actually believe the sidelines were quiet by both teams as the game was being played.

One has to wonder how much different this entire discussion would have turned out if SDL used a full referee crew....

Jogabonita

Jogabonita: Posts: 15
Join date: 2010-08-25

Post n°26

Re: SDL REFS

Jogabonita on Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:02 pm

Agreed. 2 AR's are definetely needed. We have a full crew in Rec for this size field and age group.

Number13

Number13: Posts: 165
Join date: 2010-08-24

Post n°27

Re: SDL REFS

Number13 on Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:05 pm

Pop, there goes SDL fees up to $1500 season.

allen04

allen04: Posts: 158
Join date: 2010-04-15
Location: Allen, TX

Post n°28

Re: SDL REFS

allen04 on Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:13 pm

They'd still get it wrong. Very Happy

Couple of the SDL refs just seem to get preverse pleasure out of making the wrong calls, especially that XXXXL ref.

Sprint

Sprint: Posts: 96
Join date: 2011-03-21

Post n°29

Re: SDL REFS

Sprint on Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:20 pm

While I have seen my share of bad refs through the years, I actually felt the refs were doing a pretty good job in my kids 02's games. They were pretty laid back when getting berated by some of the coaches we played, and they kept cool when getting screamed at by parents. I know it is part of the gig, but they put up with some real crap for their few shekels each week.

On the other hand, the one funny event I saw was a ref told a kid, "Just play" after the kid asked for ten yards on a free kick. The other team formed a wall about 5 yards passed the kid and the ref made him kick without moving the wall back. Guess he forgot that rule.

Ochocinco

Ochocinco: Posts: 103
Join date: 2010-11-12

Post n°30

Re: SDL REFS

Ochocinco on Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:10 pm

Number13 wrote:Pop, there goes SDL fees up to $1500 season.

The irony of it all is that a few years ago (probably a couple), SDL used a full referee crew for the older age groups and prices were actually lower than what they are now.

Without much competition (PAL was never a competitor) back then, SDL quickly monopolized the youth academy league world around the Metroplex for a few years. They realized that they could charge an arm and a leg for fees and parents would pay. Since then, many aspects of SDL have deteriorated unfortunately (i.e. fields, parking, scheduling, prices and of course the amount of referees). In the meantime, other youth academy leagues have emerged that are offering more for less (Primetime, EAL, UAL just to name a few).

It's all about supply and demand.

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