Accepted team list

http://www.gotsport.com/asp/directors/tournament/vieweventteamsclean.asp?eventid=18785

Looks like to me that Mansfield Samba Gold and Odyssey will play in the final for 02 Boys. My prediction.

madisonmyers wrote:Looks like to me that Mansfield Samba Gold and Odyssey will play in the final for 02 Boys. My prediction.

Odyssey wins this rec tournament. They should play Texans Fall Festival, better competition for them.

madisonmyers wrote:Looks like to me that Mansfield Samba Gold and Odyssey will play in the final for 02 Boys. My prediction.

Mansfield Samba did..... Odyssey was knocked out by FWFC, who beat them 3 - 0! Though, FWFC did not advance to Semifinals because of an embarrassing and unfair mistake on the Schedule..... Sporting, with 10 points, no wins, 3 goals in favor and 11 against, went on to semifinals instead of FWFC, which had 21 points, 13 goals in favor, 3 against, 2 wins (3 - 0 vs Odyssey, 9 - 0 vs American Eagles) and a 1 - 3 loss to NO FEAR.

No response from Tournament Director yet, even though this was brought to his/her attention on Saturday night. You should check the Recreational Bracket of the U10 boys for an identical situation between DALLAS EAST SA and COOK COUNTY HURRICANES..... just INCREDIBLE!

Note: It was not Sporting's or the Hurricanes' fault..... It was plain, ignorant planning.

I have no affiliation to this organization but you really should make sure of your knowledge and "facts" before calling the action of others ignorant. In any tournament that has 3 games in bracket play the 3 team brackets ALWAYS cross play. The top from each bracket ALWAYS go through as per the written rules for such a bracket set up. The mistake occurred in the seeding of the brackets. Seeding committees always try to do the best they can with available information. You are the the one whose actions are ignorant. It is unfortunate but it is not the first time this has happened and certainly won't be the last. The time to complain is when the schedule came out and you could show there were errors in the bracket seedings. Read the rules before the tournament next time.

Respectfully, he also fails to mention that I (or someone from my staff) had already answered to the coach, the manager, and the '03 manager as well. I guess I was supposed to answer to each individual parent as well.

my2cents wrote:I have no affiliation to this organization but you really should make sure of your knowledge and "facts" before calling the action of others ignorant. In any tournament that has 3 games in bracket play the 3 team brackets ALWAYS cross play. The top from each bracket ALWAYS go through as per the written rules for such a bracket set up. The mistake occurred in the seeding of the brackets. Seeding committees always try to do the best they can with available information. You are the the one whose actions are ignorant. It is unfortunate but it is not the first time this has happened and certainly won't be the last. The time to complain is when the schedule came out and you could show there were errors in the bracket seedings. Read the rules before the tournament next time.

I want to apologize for coming across rude and as you suggested, "ignorant" only means lacking knowledge.... no offense. I know my facts, and you are wrong. When you have brackets of 3-teams, you face each team with the other 2 teams in the bracket and then you cross them for the 3rd game with another bracket; by doing this, you secure 2 important things: Balanced distribution of points (a win in your bracket matches a loss in it, too) AND a key tie-break element: Head to Head. In this case, the unbalanced distribution of points between those 6 teams was what created the mess. The seedings have NOTHING to do with this situation.

Regarding reading the rules....
Show me where it says that the 3-team bracket games were all going to be crossing; I assumed the "other" brackets (not my son's 4-Team bracket) were correctly scheduled (as any other tournament we have participated before) and if they did not care when it was already bad, what makes you think that they will take "Scheduling Recommendations" from a parent? Also, (just for kicks) as I explained above, the FIRST tie-breaker in the "Official Tournament Rules" was voided because of this mistake. (Head to Head).

So, before recommending that I read the rules next time, you should inform yourself on the matter. I really hope you have no affiliation to this organization, because your concepts are not helping them at all.

wep wrote:Respectfully, he also fails to mention that I (or someone from my staff) had already answered to the coach, the manager, and the '03 manager as well. I guess I was supposed to answer to each individual parent as well.

Respectfully WEP, this is the way I see it: You are selling a product/service... and I (not my son's coach) am your customer. I don't care about the other parents you should have answered to, but if I was the Tournament director and a parent sent such a detailed e-mail pointing out an issue with my product, I would have at least responded, notifying him/her I had already talked to the coach.

But you are right, you are not obligated to do so; you can do whatever you want with your Tournament, and it's up to me to decide if I buy it again.

By the way, don't you think that "ALL" these parents questioning could be right?...I'm just saying.

cholo14 wrote:

my2cents wrote:I have no affiliation to this organization but you really should make sure of your knowledge and "facts" before calling the action of others ignorant. In any tournament that has 3 games in bracket play the 3 team brackets ALWAYS cross play. The top from each bracket ALWAYS go through as per the written rules for such a bracket set up. The mistake occurred in the seeding of the brackets. Seeding committees always try to do the best they can with available information. You are the the one whose actions are ignorant. It is unfortunate but it is not the first time this has happened and certainly won't be the last. The time to complain is when the schedule came out and you could show there were errors in the bracket seedings. Read the rules before the tournament next time.

I want to apologize for coming across rude and as you suggested, "ignorant" only means lacking knowledge.... no offense. I know my facts, and you are wrong. When you have brackets of 3-teams, you face each team with the other 2 teams in the bracket and then you cross them for the 3rd game with another bracket; by doing this, you secure 2 important things: Balanced distribution of points (a win in your bracket matches a loss in it, too) AND a key tie-break element: Head to Head. In this case, the unbalanced distribution of points between those 6 teams was what created the mess. The seedings have NOTHING to do with this situation.

Regarding reading the rules....
Show me where it says that the 3-team bracket games were all going to be crossing; I assumed the "other" brackets (not my son's 4-Team bracket) were correctly scheduled (as any other tournament we have participated before) and if they did not care when it was already bad, what makes you think that they will take "Scheduling Recommendations" from a parent? Also, (just for kicks) as I explained above, the FIRST tie-breaker in the "Official Tournament Rules" was voided because of this mistake. (Head to Head).

So, before recommending that I read the rules next time, you should inform yourself on the matter. I really hope you have no affiliation to this organization, because your concepts are not helping them at all.

The way you say it should be done creates an inequity as the three teams in the bracket do not face the same opponents. The team the draws the best team in the other bracket is at a disadvantage vs the team that draws the worst team in the cross bracket. The cross play has every team in each bracket facing the same competition thus a true test of the winner of the bracket. The error in seeding put the top three teams of the six in one bracket; unfortunate but not unheard of. The format where you play two from your own bracket and then one from the cross bracket is a different format where all brackets are three teams. You play the other two and the top teams go through and the others then cross play a third match against the like seeded cross bracket team. It is a consolation game. These are my observations of bracket play formats from 6 boys and 1 girl through 12 years of rec and six years of competitive tournaments.
Thank you for the defintion of ignorant but I was already aware of it. I do get a little defensive of volunteer organizers anywhere when they are wrongly thrown under the bus. You are wrong to attack them. If you have seen this two three team brackets played your way then it was at that tournament they did it wrong.

my2cents wrote:

cholo14 wrote:

my2cents wrote:I have no affiliation to this organization but you really should make sure of your knowledge and "facts" before calling the action of others ignorant. In any tournament that has 3 games in bracket play the 3 team brackets ALWAYS cross play. The top from each bracket ALWAYS go through as per the written rules for such a bracket set up. The mistake occurred in the seeding of the brackets. Seeding committees always try to do the best they can with available information. You are the the one whose actions are ignorant. It is unfortunate but it is not the first time this has happened and certainly won't be the last. The time to complain is when the schedule came out and you could show there were errors in the bracket seedings. Read the rules before the tournament next time.

I want to apologize for coming across rude and as you suggested, "ignorant" only means lacking knowledge.... no offense. I know my facts, and you are wrong. When you have brackets of 3-teams, you face each team with the other 2 teams in the bracket and then you cross them for the 3rd game with another bracket; by doing this, you secure 2 important things: Balanced distribution of points (a win in your bracket matches a loss in it, too) AND a key tie-break element: Head to Head. In this case, the unbalanced distribution of points between those 6 teams was what created the mess. The seedings have NOTHING to do with this situation.

Regarding reading the rules....
Show me where it says that the 3-team bracket games were all going to be crossing; I assumed the "other" brackets (not my son's 4-Team bracket) were correctly scheduled (as any other tournament we have participated before) and if they did not care when it was already bad, what makes you think that they will take "Scheduling Recommendations" from a parent? Also, (just for kicks) as I explained above, the FIRST tie-breaker in the "Official Tournament Rules" was voided because of this mistake. (Head to Head).

So, before recommending that I read the rules next time, you should inform yourself on the matter. I really hope you have no affiliation to this organization, because your concepts are not helping them at all.

The way you say it should be done creates an inequity as the three teams in the bracket do not face the same opponents. The team the draws the best team in the other bracket is at a disadvantage vs the team that draws the worst team in the cross bracket. The cross play has every team in each bracket facing the same competition thus a true test of the winner of the bracket. The error in seeding put the top three teams of the six in one bracket; unfortunate but not unheard of. The format where you play two from your own bracket and then one from the cross bracket is a different format where all brackets are three teams. You play the other two and the top teams go through and the others then cross play a third match against the like seeded cross bracket team. It is a consolation game. These are my observations of bracket play formats from 6 boys and 1 girl through 12 years of rec and six years of competitive tournaments.
Thank you for the defintion of ignorant but I was already aware of it. I do get a little defensive of volunteer organizers anywhere when they are wrongly thrown under the bus. You are wrong to attack them. If you have seen this two three team brackets played your way then it was at that tournament they did it wrong.

The way you say it should be done creates an inequity as the three teams in the bracket do not face the same opponents.


I have seen it done both ways as far as creating an inequity, isn't the purpose of seeding teams, shouldn't the higher seed have an easier schedule?

"The team the draws the best team in the other bracket is at a disadvantage vs the team that draws the worst team in the cross bracket."

Really? This is the best argument you have? Aren't you supposed to beat anybody to win a Tournament? Besides, if you draw the best team from the other bracket and loose, but win the 2 games in yours, you will secure (if not first place), at least the main Tie-Breaker in your bracket: Head to Head.

Also, you tell me what's more unfair, drawing the best team from the other bracket on bracket play, or being left out of Semifinals with more than double the points, an 18 goal BETTER difference than "a" first place, AND, AND having faced and beaten the best team (seeding wise) in the Tournament?...... You don't have to answer, don't worry!

cholo14 wrote:"The team the draws the best team in the other bracket is at a disadvantage vs the team that draws the worst team in the cross bracket."

Really? This is the best argument you have? Aren't you supposed to beat anybody to win a Tournament? Besides, if you draw the best team from the other bracket and loose, but win the 2 games in yours, you will secure (if not first place), at least the main Tie-Breaker in your bracket: Head to Head.

Also, you tell me what's more unfair, drawing the best team from the other bracket on bracket play, or being left out of Semifinals with more than double the points, an 18 goal BETTER difference than "a" first place, AND, AND having faced and beaten the best team (seeding wise) in the Tournament?...... You don't have to answer, don't worry!

Exactly!! Three brackets is always the three bracket winners and and a wild card team, which is the next highest point total among all teams left, that go through. Your team should have taken care of business in their bracket instead of asking the officials to eliminate a bracket winner in favor of a second place bracket finisher that could not earn the wild card. Your points and goal differential are irrelevant because the teams did not face the same opponents. No one can say for certain that if your team had been in that other bracket that they would have done better or worse against those teams.
Frank, I believe the purpose or seeding should be to spread the strong and weak teams out allowing top teams to earn the opportunity to go thru and weaker ones to step up or be eliminated

cholo14 wrote:

madisonmyers wrote:Looks like to me that Mansfield Samba Gold and Odyssey will play in the final for 02 Boys. My prediction.

Mansfield Samba did..... Odyssey was knocked out by FWFC, who beat them 3 - 0! Though, FWFC did not advance to Semifinals because of an embarrassing and unfair mistake on the Schedule..... Sporting, with 10 points, no wins, 3 goals in favor and 11 against, went on to semifinals instead of FWFC, which had 21 points, 13 goals in favor, 3 against, 2 wins (3 - 0 vs Odyssey, 9 - 0 vs American Eagles) and a 1 - 3 loss to NO FEAR.

No response from Tournament Director yet, even though this was brought to his/her attention on Saturday night. You should check the Recreational Bracket of the U10 boys for an identical situation between DALLAS EAST SA and COOK COUNTY HURRICANES..... just INCREDIBLE!

Note: It was not Sporting's or the Hurricanes' fault..... It was plain, ignorant planning.

Looks like you guys got the short end of the stick on this one. It seems odd that a team with no wins moves on when a team with two wins is knocked out. FWFC should have moved on and the set up did not make sense. They beat an Odyssey team that finished high in SDL D1 last fall and had a large goal differential win over American Eagles. Hope things like this get sorted out in the future.

my2cents wrote:

cholo14 wrote:"The team the draws the best team in the other bracket is at a disadvantage vs the team that draws the worst team in the cross bracket."

Really? This is the best argument you have? Aren't you supposed to beat anybody to win a Tournament? Besides, if you draw the best team from the other bracket and loose, but win the 2 games in yours, you will secure (if not first place), at least the main Tie-Breaker in your bracket: Head to Head.

Also, you tell me what's more unfair, drawing the best team from the other bracket on bracket play, or being left out of Semifinals with more than double the points, an 18 goal BETTER difference than "a" first place, AND, AND having faced and beaten the best team (seeding wise) in the Tournament?...... You don't have to answer, don't worry!

Exactly!! Three brackets is always the three bracket winners and and a wild card team, which is the next highest point total among all teams left, that go through. Your team should have taken care of business in their bracket instead of asking the officials to eliminate a bracket winner in favor of a second place bracket finisher that could not earn the wild card. Your points and goal differential are irrelevant because the teams did not face the same opponents. No one can say for certain that if your team had been in that other bracket that they would have done better or worse against those teams.
Frank, I believe the purpose or seeding should be to spread the strong and weak teams out allowing top teams to earn the opportunity to go thru and weaker ones to step up or be eliminated

Yes, ideally the best two teams have a easier path to meet in the championship. I would question why No Fear had to play FC Dallas in the Semi-final. Sporting and Mansfield played in bracket play and No Fear was in the "A" bracket and should have played the wild card team and bracket "B" and "C" winners play.

my2cents wrote:

cholo14 wrote:"The team the draws the best team in the other bracket is at a disadvantage vs the team that draws the worst team in the cross bracket."

Really? This is the best argument you have? Aren't you supposed to beat anybody to win a Tournament? Besides, if you draw the best team from the other bracket and loose, but win the 2 games in yours, you will secure (if not first place), at least the main Tie-Breaker in your bracket: Head to Head.

Also, you tell me what's more unfair, drawing the best team from the other bracket on bracket play, or being left out of Semifinals with more than double the points, an 18 goal BETTER difference than "a" first place, AND, AND having faced and beaten the best team (seeding wise) in the Tournament?...... You don't have to answer, don't worry!

Exactly!! Three brackets is always the three bracket winners and and a wild card team, which is the next highest point total among all teams left, that go through. Your team should have taken care of business in their bracket instead of asking the officials to eliminate a bracket winner in favor of a second place bracket finisher that could not earn the wild card. Your points and goal differential are irrelevant because the teams did not face the same opponents. No one can say for certain that if your team had been in that other bracket that they would have done better or worse against those teams.
Frank, I believe the purpose or seeding should be to spread the strong and weak teams out allowing top teams to earn the opportunity to go thru and weaker ones to step up or be eliminated

Just take a look at the link below to the TFC Blue Cup 2011 (U13 Boys) played this last weekend. This is the way it is done.... All 3 first place teams beat every team in their respective bracket. No complaints, period!

http://events.gotsport.com/events/results.aspx?EventID=21517&Sex=Boys&Age=13

cholo14 wrote:

my2cents wrote:

cholo14 wrote:"The team the draws the best team in the other bracket is at a disadvantage vs the team that draws the worst team in the cross bracket."

Really? This is the best argument you have? Aren't you supposed to beat anybody to win a Tournament? Besides, if you draw the best team from the other bracket and loose, but win the 2 games in yours, you will secure (if not first place), at least the main Tie-Breaker in your bracket: Head to Head.

Also, you tell me what's more unfair, drawing the best team from the other bracket on bracket play, or being left out of Semifinals with more than double the points, an 18 goal BETTER difference than "a" first place, AND, AND having faced and beaten the best team (seeding wise) in the Tournament?...... You don't have to answer, don't worry!

Exactly!! Three brackets is always the three bracket winners and and a wild card team, which is the next highest point total among all teams left, that go through. Your team should have taken care of business in their bracket instead of asking the officials to eliminate a bracket winner in favor of a second place bracket finisher that could not earn the wild card. Your points and goal differential are irrelevant because the teams did not face the same opponents. No one can say for certain that if your team had been in that other bracket that they would have done better or worse against those teams.
Frank, I believe the purpose or seeding should be to spread the strong and weak teams out allowing top teams to earn the opportunity to go thru and weaker ones to step up or be eliminated

Just take a look at the link below to the TFC Blue Cup 2011 (U13 Boys) played this last weekend. This is the way it is done.... All 3 first place teams beat every team in their respective bracket. No complaints, period!

http://events.gotsport.com/events/results.aspx?EventID=21517&Sex=Boys&Age=13

Better seeding, thats all. The winners of each bracket went through and then the highest point total wild card. Same thing as Hurst or any other tournament would do. I am sure that there is a TFC supporter somewhere saying why should DTW go through? They had an easier schedule and its not fair that half the cross bracket teams went through but only 1 out of four in ours. If it had not worked that way would you have again expected them to not put a bracket winner through? Should the rules read we will decide who goes through after we see who beats who?

my2cents wrote:

cholo14 wrote:

my2cents wrote:

cholo14 wrote:"The team the draws the best team in the other bracket is at a disadvantage vs the team that draws the worst team in the cross bracket."

Really? This is the best argument you have? Aren't you supposed to beat anybody to win a Tournament? Besides, if you draw the best team from the other bracket and loose, but win the 2 games in yours, you will secure (if not first place), at least the main Tie-Breaker in your bracket: Head to Head.

Also, you tell me what's more unfair, drawing the best team from the other bracket on bracket play, or being left out of Semifinals with more than double the points, an 18 goal BETTER difference than "a" first place, AND, AND having faced and beaten the best team (seeding wise) in the Tournament?...... You don't have to answer, don't worry!

Exactly!! Three brackets is always the three bracket winners and and a wild card team, which is the next highest point total among all teams left, that go through. Your team should have taken care of business in their bracket instead of asking the officials to eliminate a bracket winner in favor of a second place bracket finisher that could not earn the wild card. Your points and goal differential are irrelevant because the teams did not face the same opponents. No one can say for certain that if your team had been in that other bracket that they would have done better or worse against those teams.
Frank, I believe the purpose or seeding should be to spread the strong and weak teams out allowing top teams to earn the opportunity to go thru and weaker ones to step up or be eliminated

Just take a look at the link below to the TFC Blue Cup 2011 (U13 Boys) played this last weekend. This is the way it is done.... All 3 first place teams beat every team in their respective bracket. No complaints, period!

http://events.gotsport.com/events/results.aspx?EventID=21517&Sex=Boys&Age=13

Better seeding, thats all. The winners of each bracket went through and then the highest point total wild card. Same thing as Hurst or any other tournament would do. I am sure that there is a TFC supporter somewhere saying why should DTW go through? They had an easier schedule and its not fair that half the cross bracket teams went through but only 1 out of four in ours. If it had not worked that way would you have again expected them to not put a bracket winner through? Should the rules read we will decide who goes through after we see who beats who?

Better Seeding? Come on, you know better than that.

Because TFC Cup decided that EVERY SINGLE team was playing against ALL the teams in their respective bracket, at the end they got the best four teams in the Tournament advancing to Semifinals (for whatever reason Hurst Turkey Shoot DIDN’T). It was the EXACT same structure (two 3-team brackets and one 4-team bracket) as the Hurst Turkey Shoot, but correctly scheduled.

It cannot be better exemplified than this! By the way, that TFC team you think had it wrong and could complain, finished 2nd of the 4-team bracket, just as FWFC did in the Turkey Shoot.....why could not FWFC complain then? Oh yes, I know.... FWFC actually GOT MORE POINTS than one of the 1st place teams in the other brackets, TFC did NOT.

This TFC Cup example is satisfying closure for me, so HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

I don't think anyone was wronged. It was just an example of possible arguments that can be made at any tournament. Don't have a kid in this age group or a link to either tournament. The point is sometimes you get a bad bounce or call and lose the game. . Part of the game. Sometimes your team the victim of bad seeding( or scheduling if you want). It too is part of the game. My point is bracket winners go through, period. Get over it, move on and don't expect officials to send home a bracket winner regardless of how terribly unfair and wrong you are convinced it is. I can imagine the uproar if your team won their bracket and was told go home.