http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/odp/2011_u14_usnt_thanksgiving_interregional.asp

afrankw wrote:http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/odp/2011_u14_usnt_thanksgiving_interregional.asp

wow only 1 from all of Texas?

What does this say about the whole infatuation with Classic League, promotion/relegation and the emphasis on results?

Cause and effect? maybe. maybe not.

afrankw wrote:http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/odp/2011_u14_usnt_thanksgiving_interregional.asp

If he made the national team. I would love for my BB to go and watch him play a few times. If anyone knows if he plays PA or Classic D1 and for which FC Dallas?

The Chosen One.

finish1 wrote:The Chosen One.

yep the only BB that has played for more different teams then my BB

There can be only one.

finish1 wrote:There can be only one.

uhhh yea....him he is an awesome player and this is well deserved!

he is playing for the FCD 97 pre academy team and doing extremely well. Actually came on as a sub for the u16 academy team once.

That is pretty amazing that he is the only one from Texas chosen - Is it that the Texas players skills aren't as good as players from Calif, NJ, Fla, Va, Ga, etc? Maybe its because that Texas player is so good he makes all the others from Texas look bad by comparison when they came to look at the Texas players.

Laimport wrote:What does this say about the whole infatuation with Classic League, promotion/relegation and the emphasis on results?

Cause and effect? maybe. maybe not.

move along nothing to see here. CL and NTX are doing just fine. Besides who needs to develope. In a few years these kids won't even be playing soccer. Just win

The question is what are they doing in California that makes them so much better than every other state?

The German wrote:

Laimport wrote:What does this say about the whole infatuation with Classic League, promotion/relegation and the emphasis on results?

Cause and effect? maybe. maybe not.

The boy started playing soccer in a country where the emphasis on promotion/relegation and therefore winning starts earlier than in the US and obviousely he is doing just fine.

Naturally gifted athlete that transcends the sport. Throw out the rulebook when those rare players join the ranks...

Beware the "relative age effect".

That said, once you're "in" it's that much easier to stay in and be pushed through the system.

Promotion and relegation works fine for pros.

For 10-14 yr olds, not so much.

In other countries, they focus on developing the player...not on team results.

Messi was 'relegated' to the B and C teams at barca when he was a youth player. Here, he would have been tossed aside.

We don't develop players here, we filter them.

How many former U14/15 national team players are now plying their trade in Europe? Not bloody many.

I don't think Dempsey ever got close to a youth national pool. Not until U20.

davito wrote:The question is what are they doing in California that makes them so much better than every other state?

Start with 12 million more people, a city almost the size of our state and the home of the national team. It's harder to believe the kids out of Kansas and Nebraska given their isolated soccer clubs - now, that's something.

As Weston has shown, I don't think you can do much from a developmental standpoint if your goal is to get kids on the national team. There is too much internal drive/talent required that can be influenced in part by coaching/training, but not entirely (i.e. easy to build a group of U5s that are all self-motivated, gets harder as they get older and the bar is much higher). Politics become a major issue when it comes to the older ages obviously - coaches probably lobby for their pupil.

It's pleasing to see the posts praising his accomplishments in comparison to the jealousy-ridden posts on a particular '96 who is now training w/Fulham.

If you haven't seen either play - you'll be impressed.

Clue, I haven't seen the 96 play. Is that EH?

clueless wrote:

davito wrote:The question is what are they doing in California that makes them so much better than every other state?

Start with 12 million more people, a city almost the size of our state and the home of the national team. It's harder to believe the kids out of Kansas and Nebraska given their isolated soccer clubs - now, that's something.

As Weston has shown, I don't think you can do much from a developmental standpoint if your goal is to get kids on the national team. There is too much internal drive/talent required that can be influenced in part by coaching/training, but not entirely (i.e. easy to build a group of U5s that are all self-motivated, gets harder as they get older and the bar is much higher). Politics become a major issue when it comes to the older ages obviously - coaches probably lobby for their pupil.

It's pleasing to see the posts praising his accomplishments in comparison to the jealousy-ridden posts on a particular '96 who is now training w/Fulham.

If you haven't seen either play - you'll be impressed.

You are right, Clue, it is pleasing to see the that-a-boys for Weston b/c let me tell you some that are on here now and others back in his pre-select days did post jealously-ridden things about him. I remember the good-ole TM days where they said he was physically mature and that it would catch up with him one day. GO99 even once claimed that his bb completely shut him down in a game (maybe he did - I was not there...) and that he was not that "special".

We are proud of your accomplishments on the pitch, Weston, but I am more proud of the young man off the pitch that you have become. Represent us well!!

Laimport wrote:Beware the "relative age effect".

That said, once you're "in" it's that much easier to stay in and be pushed through the system.

Promotion and relegation works fine for pros.

For 10-14 yr olds, not so much.

In other countries, they focus on developing the player...not on team results.

Messi was 'relegated' to the B and C teams at barca when he was a youth player. Here, he would have been tossed aside.

We don't develop players here, we filter them.

How many former U14/15 national team players are now plying their trade in Europe? Not bloody many.

I don't think Dempsey ever got close to a youth national pool. Not until U20.

Same for local lad Conor Doyle who played his club years with DT and now is with Derby County. He was never in the national pool until the last year or so. He just completed training camp with the U23s in Germany and will possibly be named to the US Olympic squad.

The comment expressing disbelief that players from Nebraska and Kansas could be included is ridiculously naive.

Sure, it's easier to stand out and get noticed coming from a smaller area. But remember, outside of DFW, most of the exceptional players are part of teams that play in regional leagues that may encompass 5-7 states.

You guys are spoiled here. Up until the recent advent of preacademy teams/leagues all your "high level" soccer is played in your backyard. (With the exception of premier league at U14+)

Good players come from everywhere. The ones that do get recognized from smaller markets generally deserve it.

Chicago Fire recently signed a 17 yr old from their affilliate club in Mississippi! (maybe 18 now.)

That's one of the inherent problems with player identification in this country. The focus tends to be on players from major clubs in large markets. The assumption is that because they play at "major clubs" they are automatically better. Sometimes they are. Sometimes not.

Again, "naturally gifted athletes" at 13-15 don't always pan out at 20-23 when it matters most.

Regarding EH, I wondered what happened. Glad to see he at least has some professional coaches looking at him. Hopefully he will have the physical abilities eventually to play at that level. Obviously, his best option is at central midfield. Not too many 5"3 strikers or defenders playing in the EPL.

His technical qualities may be better appreciated in Portugal or Spain.

I don't think demographics can explain it. Based on population California should have 4 or 5 players (has 9) and Texas should have 2 or 3 (has 1). New Jersey and Virginia should each have 1 player (have 3 each).

I think the variations of Texas, New Jersey and Virginia can be explained given the small numbers involved (+/- 1 or 2), the fact that talent distribution will not be perfectly even and assessment is subjective.

But there is clearly something other than just population going on in California. Could be politics, higher % of kids playing soccer?, better club structure?

Curious if anyone on here has insight as to what is different about California.

If I recall correctly what I read in Soccernomics, the countries that over-achieve have a higher % participating and nurture their talent better with more trained coaches and later progression to 11v11.

(BTW I don't see any Kansas or Nebraska in the list, so not sure where that come from. Are we reading same list?)

ontherightside wrote:

clueless wrote:

davito wrote:The question is what are they doing in California that makes them so much better than every other state?

Start with 12 million more people, a city almost the size of our state and the home of the national team. It's harder to believe the kids out of Kansas and Nebraska given their isolated soccer clubs - now, that's something.

As Weston has shown, I don't think you can do much from a developmental standpoint if your goal is to get kids on the national team. There is too much internal drive/talent required that can be influenced in part by coaching/training, but not entirely (i.e. easy to build a group of U5s that are all self-motivated, gets harder as they get older and the bar is much higher). Politics become a major issue when it comes to the older ages obviously - coaches probably lobby for their pupil.

It's pleasing to see the posts praising his accomplishments in comparison to the jealousy-ridden posts on a particular '96 who is now training w/Fulham.

If you haven't seen either play - you'll be impressed.

You are right, Clue, it is pleasing to see the that-a-boys for Weston b/c let me tell you some that are on here now and others back in his pre-select days did post jealously-ridden things about him. I remember the good-ole TM days where they said he was physically mature and that it would catch up with him one day. GO99 even once claimed that his bb completely shut him down in a game (maybe he did - I was not there...) and that he was not that "special".

We are proud of your accomplishments on the pitch, Weston, but I am more proud of the young man off the pitch that you have become. Represent us well!!

Appreciate the shout out onthewrongside but at least get it right. Never said he wasn't that special. It was actually used as an example that everybody has things to work on and nobody is preordained to make it. It was one specific thing in his game that had given him troubles on a few occasions not with just my bb. I am sure he has continued to work and improve all aspect of his game including that one. Now this might have angered some who felt he walked on water and I am sorry you are still holding on to that. He is just a very talented kid with a ton of potential. His head seems to be on straight and not buying into all of the praise and expectations you all place on him. Remember, he still hasn't matched the lofty accolades of Freddy Adu. He was the next Pele by the time he was 14 and we see how that worked out.

Back to the reguarly scheduled programming. Spin it how you want, but 1 player from the vaunted NTX player pool is pathetic and embarassing

davito wrote:I don't think demographics can explain it. Based on population California should have 4 or 5 players (has 9) and Texas should have 2 or 3 (has 1). New Jersey and Virginia should each have 1 player (have 3 each).

I think the variations of Texas, New Jersey and Virginia can be explained given the small numbers involved (+/- 1 or 2), the fact that talent distribution will not be perfectly even and assessment is subjective.

But there is clearly something other than just population going on in California. Could be politics, higher % of kids playing soccer?, better club structure?

Curious if anyone on here has insight as to what is different about California.

If I recall correctly what I read in Soccernomics, the countries that over-achieve have a higher % participating and nurture their talent better with more trained coaches and later progression to 11v11.

(BTW I don't see any Kansas or Nebraska in the list, so not sure where that come from. Are we reading same list?)

I'm not trying to act like I know, because I certainly don't, but I do have some friends with a couple of kids playing NTX soccer now for a year. They moved here from So. Cal. They are amazed at the emphasis put on winning here. They said in So. Cal. it is all about playing the game properly first and foremost and not about winning.

That may be why so many of our younger teams go out there and win, but not so much as they get older.

But again, I don't know.

hey watch your feet. You are walking in "Win now" territory son. We don't take kindly to that kind of developmental talk around these parts

clueless wrote:

davito wrote:The question is what are they doing in California that makes them so much better than every other state?

Start with 12 million more people, a city almost the size of our state and the home of the national team. It's harder to believe the kids out of Kansas and Nebraska given their isolated soccer clubs - now, that's something.

As Weston has shown, I don't think you can do much from a developmental standpoint if your goal is to get kids on the national team. There is too much internal drive/talent required that can be influenced in part by coaching/training, but not entirely (i.e. easy to build a group of U5s that are all self-motivated, gets harder as they get older and the bar is much higher). Politics become a major issue when it comes to the older ages obviously - coaches probably lobby for their pupil.

It's pleasing to see the posts praising his accomplishments in comparison to the jealousy-ridden posts on a particular '96 who is now training w/Fulham.
If you haven't seen either play - you'll be impressed.

and parents with big lips and deep pockets?

I'd also be willing to bet that SoCal also has a lot more pure, fulltime soccer players. That, coupled with the demographics and population density contributes heavily to their success rate at putting players into national teams.

And apparently, they are more adept when it comes to developing technically and tactically competent players.

Based on what I've observed with CL so far, Texas doesn't do anything differently (meaning better)than any other state.

Florida seems to be punching above their weight as well. My guess is that historically, they haven't focused on building 'superteams' for regional and national competition. Currently they only have 4 DA clubs. In a state with 100,000 registered players.

It's really an easy fix.

More soccer 'schools'. Players train strictly on technique and slowly introduce tactics as they progress. U14+.

Forget about rostering teams. Club passes. Move players around where they aren't with the same group week in and week out...trying to grind out results. Play friendlies and the occasional tournament against varied levels of competition.

More small sided stuff. 3v3. 4v4. Futsal.

Course, that would go against the clubs' current business model. Being accountable for developing players isn't in their best interests.

Think about it. If this team focused, high pressure, promotion/relegation approach really worked, wouldn't we be further along by now?

I'm all for grouping players together by ability. But doing that for the purpose of building a team (especially below U14) is criminal.

LP, you have it figured out. I agree with you 100%. The independent clubs can't/won't develop players in those terms. That responsibility should be on the MLS franchise. Close the loop, develop the talent and trade the product. Let the independent clubs do as they wish...There is not other way.

With finish on this one.

What I like most about the 98 is he comes without a pedigree. The older players come from a line of soccer insiders with contacts.

finish1 wrote:LP, you have it figured out. I agree with you 100%. The independent clubs can't/won't develop players in those terms. That responsibility should be on the MLS franchise. Close the loop, develop the talent and trade the product. Let the independent clubs do as they wish...There is not other way.

Not to be the turd in the punchbowl here, but how about the reason NTX is not well represented is maybe our players are just not that good. Maybe it is not the system or the focus on winning, but our players just don't play as well.

The reason they don't play as well is just because they are not that good. Period. There are only so many places on that team and the NTX players, save one, do not measure up.

All the 3v3, small sided games, non-competitive focus on development will not help if the natural talent is not there. Maybe we lack in natural talent.