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National Rankings Competitive Soccer - North Texas

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National Rankings Competitive Soccer - North Texas

Post by Soccernovice on 7/1/2012, 12:15 am

I thought it was interesting to look how North Texas is comparing in gotsoccer rankings to rest of country. In some age groups we seem to have fallen back of rest of country not having a top tier nationally ranked team (e.g., 96's). Top flight teams get best visibility in college showcases at U17 and above. This can make it harder for players to get seen by college coaches from stronger men's soccer programs.

It is interesting that we no longer have most of our big clubs in the Top 50 rankings at most age groups. The USSF DA and Pre-Academy has had a big impact on those clubs in the quality of their teams they are fielding in club soccer. Before the advent of USSF DA the Dallas Texans and Solar usually had a team in the Top 50 national ranking at every age level. Will the smaller clubs produce better club teams at U17 and above for college showcasing going forward since the better big club players are on the USSF DA academy teams? The smaller clubs have tendancy to keep their best players and thus form strong college showcasing teams.

---- ----Team ---------- National Ranking
U-13 Andromeda Red #29
U-14 Dallas Texans South #18
U-15 FC Dallas Blue #47
U-16 Texans White West #126
U-17 Solar 95 #30
U-18 AYSES 94 Gold #28

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Re: National Rankings Competitive Soccer - North Texas

Post by soccergrinder on 7/1/2012, 12:20 am

I'd say gotsoccer is out of date. Their rating systems are way outdated and they don't know how to deal with the current state of select soccer landscape.

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Re: National Rankings Competitive Soccer - North Texas

Post by Goooaaal on 7/1/2012, 1:26 am

First of all - I agree with soccergrinder. When my BB's team travels I used to rely on gotsoccer rankings to tell me the quality of opponent but I can't rely on them at all anymore so I don't even check them.

Secondly - maybe it's just too late on a Saturday night - but I don't understand your reasoning at all. You could argue that North Texas club team's rankings have fallen off because of talent being pulled into the USSF DA and Pre-Academy teams but to argue that the smaller clubs will have better college showcasing teams going forward seems to go against your evidence.

In all but one of the age groups you have highlighted (congrats Ayses 94) the top ranked team from North Texas is affiliated with a club that has USSF DA / Pre-Academy teams. This means that these clubs still manage to field the highest got-soccer ranked team in North Texas (regardless of what that ranking is) in their age group - despite the fact that they have a DA or Pre-Academy team above them pulling the more talented players from the club.

How on earth does this translate to an advantage to the smaller club? Whether the top North Texas "big club" team is ranked #1 or #1001 nationally on gotsoccer - it is still ranked above the smaller clubs' teams and that's WITH a supposedly better team with better talent above it in the club at the DA and Pre-Academy level. And we all know that the USSF DA teams do just fine when it comes to visibility with college coaches.

Either your logic is flawed or I need another beer. I'll try the beer just in case!!! cheers

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Re: National Rankings Competitive Soccer - North Texas

Post by afrankw on 7/1/2012, 6:13 am

There are so many of these ranking systems out on the market. Here is a link to TopDrawerSoccer.com and when you look at the rankings they include PA and Academy teams, but it is almost impossible for a non PA and Academy club to break into the rankings, so you will find the PA and Academy teams from NTX in the top 10 of just about every age group.

TopDrawersoccer.com

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Re: National Rankings Competitive Soccer - North Texas

Post by starbucks on 7/1/2012, 8:38 am

I have to agree that gotsoccer is outdated and their scoring system is odd.
In the U16 age group, DT 96B Red wins Classic League Grand Champion but receives a total of 202 points.
TFC the second place team receives 1091. DT White West who placed 6th receives 238 points.
DT Red beat the current nationally ranked #1 team Beachside, Connecticut 2-1 in Disney this past December and yet they are now ranked #169
and below the others I have mentioned above. Go figure.

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Re: National Rankings Competitive Soccer - North Texas

Post by Soccerinsanity on 7/1/2012, 11:00 am

Agreed...last year our team lost every game in the State Cup but improved our ranking for playing in that particular tournament!

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Re: National Rankings Competitive Soccer - North Texas

Post by TxHunter on 7/1/2012, 11:10 am

The points system is geared towards the clubs/teams that play LOTS of tournaments vs league play. If you have a highly ranked team they are champions or finalists in many of the big tournaments. The points system is not accurate though, how could FCD98's play up in the memorial day tournament in the U15 age group and earn a total of 34 points for winning the tournament and 2nd place gets 999 and semifinalists get 750.

It is interesting when you look at the teams that were regional and national finalists and champions are most often 15 to 20 spots below #1 and yet most of the top ranked teams didnt' even win their state cups.


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Re: National Rankings Competitive Soccer - North Texas

Post by Soccernovice on 7/1/2012, 12:46 pm

The point system is the same as it was back then accept Solar and Dallas Texans always had their #1 team in the top 50 national rankings. The reason why is they won the Surf Cup, the won the Disney Showcase, they won the state cup, and sometimes the Dallas Cup or was a finalist. That is how you get gotsoccer.com points. Winning the classic league does nothing for your points. Winning the Premier League helps out.

I believe our North Texas teams are not winning in these national showcase events like they have in the past. That is why there are so few teams ranked in the Top 50. The rankings process has not changed. I can look at each team and ask: did they participate in key showcase events and win, did they finish high in the premier league, did they win the state cup. If they didn't accomplish these feats, they are not highly ranked nationally. It is very tough for a team to have these achievements. I see our teams participating in these events they are not winning. That is why they don't have a lot of national ranking points.

The AYSES 94 Gold team is not affiliated with USSF DA. The players on that team with a smaller club stayed in the classic league by choice, they have excelled as a team in national tournaments just like Solar 95 and that is why they are high in the national rankings. I can take any team you name and go pull their records in national ranked tournaments and that will explain why their national rankings are low. They are just not as good of team as their predecessors who are now in USSF DA. There has been so much talent drain from those clubs it is hard to succeed on the national playing level in club soccer. That is my opinion and I have been around to see the times when our big clubs dominated the national rankings. Just remember these teams are participating in the same showcase events but not performing as well as they did before USSF DA existed in general. AYSES being a smaller club has bucked this trend since they provided an suitable alternative to USSF DA for their players supporting their men's college soccer scholarship needs.

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Re: National Rankings Competitive Soccer - North Texas

Post by Soccernovice on 7/1/2012, 1:40 pm

Dallas Texans Red 96

Finalist State Cup
No points earned in Region-3 Premier League
Semi-finalist in Disney Showcase
No points earned from participating in the Dallas Cup
No major national showcase events besides Disney

The top Dallas Texans Red team for your age group prior to USSF DA would have won or been finalist in most of all of these events.

That is why your national ranking in gotsoccer.com is so low relative to your peers.

That is my point I was making compared to the past Dallas Texans Red top club teams.

The national rankings matter for placement in the best national showcase events. This becomes more important to clubs at U-17 and U-18 age levels for getting into the best national showcase events.

The other ranking systems in my opinion are crap since most national tournaments us gotsoccer.com for scoring which ties into the ranking system.

Remember my point is before USSF DA Dallas Texans and Solar had their top team in the top 50 nationally ranked teams at almost every age level. They also won most of the State Cups and sent a lot of teams some years to the National Championship through winning the US Youth Soccer Regional Championship. This year we have one age level that won regionals and will go to the National Championship representing North Texas. My point is the big club #1 teams are not as good nationally relative to their peers as they were before USSF DA. That is why we have dropped off in domination of many of these national showcase events. Now our USSF DA top teams do very well. The top club team does not so well against national competition. That explains one reason why teams do not have more gotsoccer.com points and are lower in the national rankings. You have to win these events.

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Re: National Rankings Competitive Soccer - North Texas

Post by Goooaaal on 7/1/2012, 11:55 pm

Soccernovice - You say that "my point is the big club #1 teams are not as good nationally relative to their peers as they were before USSF DA."

I said (in response to your original post) that "You could argue that North Texas club team's rankings have fallen off because of talent being pulled into the USSF DA and Pre-Academy teams".

So let's agree to agree on that one.

But your original point (lest you forget) was "Will the smaller clubs produce better club teams at U17 and above for college showcasing going forward since the better big club players are on the USSF DA academy teams?" And then you supposedly made the argument for this by producing a list of the top-rated teams in North Texas - and 5 teams out of the 6 (apart from your Ayses team) - were from the North Texas USSF DA "big" clubs. So - I will give you that the big club's national rankings outside of the DA and Pre-Academy system aren't what they used to be - but they are still the best in North Texas.

All of us in North Texas are very proud of your Ayses 94 team but sometimes you make it difficult to be a fan (trust me - I've experienced the "big evil club who get all the best players but don't develop them" speech in person also). I know you are just trying to sell your Ayses product but to do it by denigrating the other clubs/teams/coaches in North Texas, including specifically calling out a VERY good Dallas Texans 96 team (no affiliation - I promise!), ... well ... to be honest, it has become a little tiresome.

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Re: National Rankings Competitive Soccer - North Texas

Post by Guest on 7/3/2012, 1:48 pm

For me, GotSoccer is a nice reference when you are trying to learn about an out of state opponent while preparing for a tournament. Otherwise, it is pretty worthless. The point system makes no sense. As an example, here are the points that GotSoccer assigned for the 96 (U16) group for their CL finish:
1. DTR - 202 Points
2. TFC - 1,091 Points
3. DTRS - 871 Points
4. ODY - 580
5. FCD - 379
6. DTWW - 238
7. Solar - 147
8. AE - 80
So, DTR is penalized for winning the league? I gave up on figuring out how this is computed a long time ago.

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Re: National Rankings Competitive Soccer - North Texas

Post by off_the_woodwork on 7/3/2012, 1:58 pm

soccerdad96b wrote:For me, GotSoccer is a nice reference when you are trying to learn about an out of state opponent while preparing for a tournament. Otherwise, it is pretty worthless. The point system makes no sense. As an example, here are the points that GotSoccer assigned for the 96 (U16) group for their CL finish:
1. DTR - 202 Points
2. TFC - 1,091 Points
3. DTRS - 871 Points
4. ODY - 580
5. FCD - 379
6. DTWW - 238
7. Solar - 147
8. AE - 80
So, DTR is penalized for winning the league? I gave up on figuring out how this is computed a long time ago.

Oh so correct. GotSoccer is worthless for ranking teams. Another hilarious aspect of GotSoccer is they will assign as many points or more for winning a worthless tournament (one weekend) as they do for winning Classic League (18 weekends). Then you will see some of the teams from OK for instance who get showered with points for winning their leagues and crap tournaments, but they come down to NTX and get stomped by CL D3 teams that are ranked 100s of places lower in the region. Not sure who designed that system, but it sucks.

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Re: National Rankings Competitive Soccer - North Texas

Post by starbucks on 7/3/2012, 5:31 pm

Thank you soccerdad96b, that was exactly my point on my post above. DTR is now ranked #6 in North Texas. The first place U16 North Texas team is now Solar Chelsea 97, a U15 boys team.
LOL....

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