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U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by PG-Boy on 3/19/2013, 9:05 am

It could just mean the other regions are actively engaged in the decision making while our local NTX and STX representatives are passive. Or perhaps our representatives believe the current local club count is sufficient.

Does having more teams dilute the quality or expand the pool of quality clubs?

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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by Redbulls01 on 3/19/2013, 9:14 am

Just to make sure we are all on the same page. The listing of clubs accepted at the US Soccer sites are "NEW" clubs that have been accepted to house U13/14 Academy teams. All existing clubs that already have Academy programs FC Dallas, Solar, Texans and Andromeda will have the U13/14 teams this next season. This simply means that clubs like Liverpool, TFC etc. did not get awarded U13/14 teams if they applied.

Somebody else confirm after you read it but I believe I am correct. Cool

CHICAGO (March 18, 2013) – The U.S. Soccer Development Academy has announced the inclusion of 22 new clubs to the Under-13/14 age division in preparation for the inaugural 2013-14 season. The new clubs will join existing Academy clubs in the new U-13/14 program starting next fall.

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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by debit on 3/19/2013, 9:30 am

Redbulls01 wrote:Just to make sure we are all on the same page. The listing of clubs accepted at the US Soccer sites are "NEW" clubs that have been accepted to house U13/14 Academy teams. All existing clubs that already have Academy programs FC Dallas, Solar, Texans and Andromeda will have the U13/14 teams this next season. This simply means that clubs like Liverpool, TFC etc. did not get awarded U13/14 teams if they applied.

Somebody else confirm after you read it but I believe I am correct. Cool

CHICAGO (March 18, 2013) – The U.S. Soccer Development Academy has announced the inclusion of 22 new clubs to the Under-13/14 age division in preparation for the inaugural 2013-14 season. The new clubs will join existing Academy clubs in the new U-13/14 program starting next fall.

That's correct. It also doesn't mean these new clubs in the U13/14 program are invited to field teams in the U15/16 nor U17/18 programs. They are only invited to the U13/14 program.

Of course, it should give them an advantage when the older age groups do invite more clubs, but it's not automatic.

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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by Redbulls01 on 3/19/2013, 10:06 am

So back to my original question... How does this affect the landscape of Classic League soccer 01 level next contract?

Let me use FC Dallas as my example. I assume FC Dallas (Gentile and Premier) are loaded with 00 boys. I think many of them participate in the residency program. So I have to believe the the majority if not all will now move into the U13/14 Academy pool correct? The same thing is going to happen with the Texans correct? Solar has a much smaller pool at the 01 level not sure what their 99's look like currently? Andromeda does not have anybody in the 01 pool at the D1 level and their D2 team is walking the relegation tight rope currently. (With high winds and rain coming quickly)

I also assume many 00's and 01's that are interested in Academy will look to Pre Academy U13 to get ready for the following. 24 games with an uptick in commitment.

Again just curious has in my eyes there is about to be a huge change to 01 soccer as we currently know it.


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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by ontherightside on 3/19/2013, 10:13 am

Redbulls01 wrote:So back to my original question... How does this affect the landscape of Classic League soccer )01 level next contract?

Let me use FC Dallas as my example. I assume FC Dallas (Gentile and Premier) are loaded with 00 boys. I think many of them participate in the residency program. So I have to believe the the majority if not all will now move into the U13/14 Academy pool correct? The same thing is going to happen with the Texans correct? Solar has a much smaller pool at the 01 level not sure what their 99's look like currently? Andromeda does not have anybody in the 01 pool at the D1 level and their D2 team is walking the relegation tight rope currently. (With high winds and rain coming quickly)

I also assume many 00's and 01's that are interested in Academy will look to Pre Academy U13 to get ready for the following. 24 games with us uptick in commitment.

Again just curiouse has in my eyes there is about to be a huge change to 01 soccer as we currently know it.

As I said before, yes, I think there will be a change for 01 CL teams, but not due to U13/U14 Academy, but rather due to U13 PA.

Let's use your FCD example: They will first take their 20+ roster from their current U13 PA, they will then look at FCD 99 Premier, FCD-Central 99, FCDY Lopez 99, etc. If that does not fill the roster, then they will look at the current D1 00 teams. And don't forget any independent boys that are 99s like 99 Barca, 99 Wizards or non-independent 99 Liverpool, etc that want to play Academy.

My point, your team is too young.

Now, some of your 00s will go to U13 PA.

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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by Laimport on 3/19/2013, 10:21 am

Redbulls01 wrote:So back to my original question... How does this affect the landscape of Classic League soccer 01 level next contract?

Let me use FC Dallas as my example. I assume FC Dallas (Gentile and Premier) are loaded with 00 boys. I think many of them participate in the residency program. So I have to believe the the majority if not all will now move into the U13/14 Academy pool correct? The same thing is going to happen with the Texans correct? Solar has a much smaller pool at the 01 level not sure what their 99's look like currently? Andromeda does not have anybody in the 01 pool at the D1 level and their D2 team is walking the relegation tight rope currently. (With high winds and rain coming quickly)

I also assume many 00's and 01's that are interested in Academy will look to Pre Academy U13 to get ready for the following. 24 games with an uptick in commitment.

Again just curious has in my eyes there is about to be a huge change to 01 soccer as we currently know it.


FCD 'residency' program has taken quite a bit of latitude. A residency program to me means they are housing players. And that includes players from outside the metro area.

having an arrangement with Frisco schools doesn't necessarily make it a true 'residency' program.

Splitting hairs I know.

You can put a cat in the microwave...but that doesn't make it a sausage biscuit...now does it?

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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by Soccerinsanity on 3/19/2013, 12:36 pm

cheers

But if you put a dog in the microwave....you do get a hot dog! cheers cheers
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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by Laimport on 3/19/2013, 12:43 pm

Soccerinsanity wrote: cheers

But if you put a dog in the microwave....you do get a hot dog! cheers cheers

That's right...with all the trimmings...

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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by go99 on 3/19/2013, 9:51 pm

You can put a cat in the microwave...but that doesn't make it a sausage biscuit...now does it?
Well what kind of cat are we talking about?



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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by Se_la_perdio! on 3/20/2013, 9:29 am

So back to my original question... How does this affect the landscape of Classic League soccer 01 level next contract?

Let me use FC Dallas as my example. I assume FC Dallas (Gentile and Premier) are loaded with 00 boys. I think many of them participate in the residency program. So I have to believe the the majority if not all will now move into the U13/14 Academy pool correct? The same thing is going to happen with the Texans correct? Solar has a much smaller pool at the 01 level not sure what their 99's look like currently? Andromeda does not have anybody in the 01 pool at the D1 level and their D2 team is walking the relegation tight rope currently. (With high winds and rain coming quickly)

you are still not getting it. the new u13/u14 development academy team is not going to affect the 01’s at all. let me show you why not by breaking down the current u15/u16 development academy teams in ntx:

fcd has 36 players on roster. 29 are u16s (96’s), 6 are u15’s (97’s), and 1 is a u14 player (98’s). only 3 of the u15’s (97’s) on roster play. the 98 does no play.

solar has 27 players on roster. 17 are u16 (96’s) and 10 are u15’s (97’s). only one of the u15’s (97’s) on roster plays

texans has 23 players on roster. 19 are u16’s (96’s) and 4 are u15’s (97’s). all 4 of the u15’s (97’s) play consistently.

andromeda has 28 players on roster. 19 are u16’s (96’s) and 9 are u15’s (97’s). only one of the u15’s (97’s) on roster plays.

in comparison, on the new u13/u14, u14s (99’s) would be the equivalent of u16s (96’s), u13s (00’s) would be the equivalent of u15s (97’s), and u12’s (01’s) would be the equivalent of the u14s (98’s).

when you add all those players together 74% of the players are u16s (96’s), 25% are u15s (97’s), and only 1% are u14s (98s). if they follow the same pattern, the u13/u14 development academy team next year will be made up of 74% u14s (99’s), 25% u13s (00’s) and only 1% will be u12’s (01’s).

now do you understand why this new u13/u14 development academy team will not affect the 01’s?



I also assume many 00's and 01's that are interested in Academy will look to Pre Academy U13 to get ready for the following. 24 games with an uptick in commitment.

Again just curious has in my eyes there is about to be a huge change to 01 soccer as we currently know it.
the big change this upcoming year will be to the 00 age group. as you can see from above, 25% of the players in the u13/u14 development academy team will come from this pool. they will also have to fill out the u13 pre academy rosters, which will be anywhere from 18 players to 25 players on each roster.

i don’t have the numbers for the current u13 pre-academy teams, but I believe only a handful of 99’s were playing with 00’s. so that leads me to believe that most of the players on the u13 pre-academy team next year will come from 00’s playing with the 00 age group not the 01 age group.

so we can relax, the big change to the 01 is still another year away for us.

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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by go99 on 3/20/2013, 9:44 am

With Pre academy hanging around, I am wondering how it will affect some peoples choice. AL does not allow any outside sport so it is 100% soccer focused. Pre academy does allow the kids to play another sport so maybe some kids will chose it instead or possibly return to CL.
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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by Redbulls01 on 3/20/2013, 9:58 am

I am confused by Se_la_pedrio. You are making my point I think? I am talking about D1 Classic League soccer. You don't think there is going to be any change? How many boys from the top 5 teams are 00's and going to play Academy Soccer at the U13/14 level next season? Also how many boys are 00's on the top 5 and will go to Pre Academy U13?

I would guess between FCDallas (Gentile) and Premier they are going to lose 8-10 boys between them to Academy or Pre Academy. (Unless FC Dallas is going to dual roster at Pre-Academy? Is there a rule one way or the other on this?

PG Boy might be able to enlighten us on the FC Dallas plan and if he has heard anything?

I would think Classic League D1 is going to experience a big change and this will trickle down some as they backfill roster spots. As an example will they pull boys from FC Dallas Blue in D2 or the other FC Dallas teams to fill spots?

Maybe I am wrong so somebody set me straight.

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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by Laimport on 3/20/2013, 11:41 am

Wonder if the new u13/14 da will also have designated players on the roster?

And if so, are we to assume they will also be rostered preacademy...or their top CL teams?

Will pa still even exist if the player is a u14?

And, does it really matter? IMO players that age should be getting 25-30 games a year. Not just a few starts and minutes sprinkled in as subs.

I remember reading a while back that the big DFW clubs were waiting to join the DA because CL was already considered competitive enough. I'm sure it was.

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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by Se_la_perdio! on 3/20/2013, 11:44 am

Redbulls01 wrote:I am confused by Se_la_pedrio. You are making my point I think? no sir

I am talking about D1 Classic League soccer. You don't think there is going to be any change? not in the 01's d1 cl.

How many boys from the top 5 teams are 00's and going to play Academy Soccer at the U13/14 level next season? based on the numbers i gave you above only about 25 players and again, they will come from the 00's d1 cl teams, not the 01's d1 cl teams.

Also how many boys are 00's on the top 5 and will go to Pre Academy U13? between 80 - 100. again my guess that that about 80% of those will come from 00's d1 cl teams and 20% from the 01's d1 cl teams. if my percentages are anywhere close, there will be at most 20 players total (fcd 01 teams, texans 01 teams, solar 01 team and independent 01 teams / small club 01 teams)come from 01 d1 cl teams next year.

I would guess between FCDallas (Gentile) and Premier they are going to lose 8-10 boys between them to Academy or Pre Academy. you are thinking too highly about the ability of 00 players playing with 01s in d1 cl teams. the 00 talent pool of players on teams playing on 00 d1 & d2 cl teams is too deep.

(Unless FC Dallas is going to dual roster at Pre-Academy? Is there a rule one way or the other on this? no rule against dual rostering between cl and pa, but fcd will not do this and i don't think solar does either. texans and andromeda currently do dual roster between cl and pa

you can technically dual roster between da and pa/cl as long as the players are not designated as full time players in da. if they are designated as full time players in da they can only play da. i believe all 4 clubs do some dual rostering between pa and da for the younger players not designated as full time da players.

PG Boy might be able to enlighten us on the FC Dallas plan and if he has heard anything?

I would think Classic League D1 is going to experience a big change and this will trickle down some as they backfill roster spots. As an example will they pull boys from FC Dallas Blue in D2 or the other FC Dallas teams to fill spots? yes this will happen, but it will happen to the 00 teams in d1 cl, not the 01 teams in d1 cl.

Maybe I am wrong so somebody set me straight. if anyone has the number of 99s who played with 00's in cl that are now playing on the u13 pa teams, can you share those so redbull can understand how players in 01 d1 cl teams will have a hard time getting into u13 pa much less u13/u14 da team?

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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by Axxman on 3/20/2013, 12:00 pm

go99 wrote:With Pre academy hanging around, I am wondering how it will affect some peoples choice. AL does not allow any outside sport so it is 100% soccer focused. Pre academy does allow the kids to play another sport so maybe some kids will chose it instead or possibly return to CL.

GO, pre academy allowing another sport comes down to the club. From experience, FCD pre-academy did not allow other sports, and that was the arrangment with Frisco schools to which the majority of the kids go to as teams. Texans say it's ok but doing so will have consequences. Solar and Andromeda I'm not sure about.

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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by Se_la_perdio! on 3/20/2013, 12:03 pm

Axxman wrote:
go99 wrote:With Pre academy hanging around, I am wondering how it will affect some peoples choice. AL does not allow any outside sport so it is 100% soccer focused. Pre academy does allow the kids to play another sport so maybe some kids will chose it instead or possibly return to CL.

GO, pre academy allowing another sport comes down to the club. From experience, FCD pre-academy did not allow other sports, and that was the arrangment with Frisco schools to which the majority of the kids go to as teams. Texans say it's ok but doing so will have consequences. Solar and Andromeda I'm not sure about.

axxman would you happen to know how many 99's on the fcd u13 pa team this year came from 00 cl teams? i was told that the majority came from 99 cl teams

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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by go99 on 3/20/2013, 12:11 pm

Axxman wrote:
go99 wrote:With Pre academy hanging around, I am wondering how it will affect some peoples choice. AL does not allow any outside sport so it is 100% soccer focused. Pre academy does allow the kids to play another sport so maybe some kids will chose it instead or possibly return to CL.

GO, pre academy allowing another sport comes down to the club. From experience, FCD pre-academy did not allow other sports, and that was the arrangment with Frisco schools to which the majority of the kids go to as teams. Texans say it's ok but doing so will have consequences. Solar and Andromeda I'm not sure about.

yes I would say that is tru, but by the rules it is allowed and by the rules of the AL it is not.
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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by Axxman on 3/20/2013, 12:12 pm

Se_la_perdio! wrote:
Axxman wrote:
go99 wrote:With Pre academy hanging around, I am wondering how it will affect some peoples choice. AL does not allow any outside sport so it is 100% soccer focused. Pre academy does allow the kids to play another sport so maybe some kids will chose it instead or possibly return to CL.

GO, pre academy allowing another sport comes down to the club. From experience, FCD pre-academy did not allow other sports, and that was the arrangment with Frisco schools to which the majority of the kids go to as teams. Texans say it's ok but doing so will have consequences. Solar and Andromeda I'm not sure about.

axxman would you happen to know how many 99's on the fcd u13 pa team this year came from 00 cl teams? i was told that the majority came from 99 cl teams

17 on the roster. 4 came from 00 cl teams.

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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by go99 on 3/20/2013, 12:14 pm

but I am just wondering who care how it affects what league. It seems more thought should be put into what does my kid want from soccer and what league suits his needs best. Maybe a breakdown of the pros and cons of the various leagues and teams. something a little more substanative than "where are all of the cool kids playing"
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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by Axxman on 3/20/2013, 12:15 pm

go99 wrote:
Axxman wrote:
go99 wrote:With Pre academy hanging around, I am wondering how it will affect some peoples choice. AL does not allow any outside sport so it is 100% soccer focused. Pre academy does allow the kids to play another sport so maybe some kids will chose it instead or possibly return to CL.

GO, pre academy allowing another sport comes down to the club. From experience, FCD pre-academy did not allow other sports, and that was the arrangment with Frisco schools to which the majority of the kids go to as teams. Texans say it's ok but doing so will have consequences. Solar and Andromeda I'm not sure about.

yes I would say that is tru, but by the rules it is allowed and by the rules of the AL it is not.

Since when do the clubs around here follow the rules? FCD can get away with it because they do not charge for the program and thus ask for that in return.

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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by Redbulls01 on 3/20/2013, 12:18 pm

I understand what you(Se_la_perdio)are saying but I still think you are not looking at all the pieces. Let's take a look at D1 U13 Classic League...

Top team Andromeda 14-1-1 (39 goals for/5 against? Really? Is this a super team or what?(to me this is a red flag) This is the only top team Andromeda is fielding at U13 and below. This team came from TFC. Somebody help me are they really that good? Personally I am shocked that they are beating the top 00 teams from FC Dallas, Solar and Texans. FC Dallas Hedges 8-2-6, Texans Craft 8-2-6 and Solar 7-5-4. Is it because they are all 99 boys and the other 3 clubs are fielding just 00's? Again find it hard to believe but maybe somebody at the 00 U13 level can explain.

Per your statement you think they are picking boys by age. Meaning a 3-6 month differnce is going to be held against some. I am sure many of the boys playing U13 (00's) are very talented. But I do know that there are a lot of boys I see everyweeknd U12 that will be picked as 00's to play in the academy. They are looking for the best of the best correct?

Also remember Solar only has one team in Classic League at the U13 level.





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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by go99 on 3/20/2013, 12:27 pm

Axxman wrote:
go99 wrote:
Axxman wrote:
go99 wrote:With Pre academy hanging around, I am wondering how it will affect some peoples choice. AL does not allow any outside sport so it is 100% soccer focused. Pre academy does allow the kids to play another sport so maybe some kids will chose it instead or possibly return to CL.

GO, pre academy allowing another sport comes down to the club. From experience, FCD pre-academy did not allow other sports, and that was the arrangment with Frisco schools to which the majority of the kids go to as teams. Texans say it's ok but doing so will have consequences. Solar and Andromeda I'm not sure about.

yes I would say that is tru, but by the rules it is allowed and by the rules of the AL it is not.

Since when do the clubs around here follow the rules? FCD can get away with it because they do not charge for the program and thus ask for that in return.

Yes fcd gets away with that but I am wondering if they would use PA as a way to hold on to those multi sport athletes. This assumes however that the other clubs will allow the kids to play school sport. Some kids want to play for the school. Want to try football or track or something in highschool and thats okay. AL was not made for them. However pre academy could be. but yes I would be surprised if it was
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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by Se_la_perdio! on 3/20/2013, 12:59 pm

Redbulls01 wrote:I understand what you(Se_la_perdio)are saying but I still think you are not looking at all the pieces. Let's take a look at D1 U13 Classic League...

Top team Andromeda 14-1-1 (39 goals for/5 against? Really? Is this a super team or what?(to me this is a red flag) This is the only top team Andromeda is fielding at U13 and below. This team came from TFC. Somebody help me are they really that good? yes, they are that good. they became a super team over the break after the dt super team was broken up. they picked up a player or two from that team that put them over the top.

Personally I am shocked that they are beating the top 00 teams from FC Dallas, Solar and Texans. FC Dallas Hedges 8-2-6, Texans Craft 8-2-6 and Solar 7-5-4. Is it because they are all 99 boys and the other 3 clubs are fielding just 00's? go ahead and don't believe it if you don't want, but it has more to do with it than you think. just look at the solar 99 super team playing in the u15 cl league. that is another great example.

Again find it hard to believe but maybe somebody at the 00 U13 level can explain.

Per your statement you think they are picking boys by age. they are picking them based on ability but older boys have a huge advantage that you do not want to accept

Meaning a 3-6 month differnce is going to be held against some. not held against them but unfortunately it will work against them

I am sure many of the boys playing U13 (00's) are very talented. more than you are willing to accept. just wait and see.

But I do know that there are a lot of boys I see everyweeknd U12 that will be picked as 00's to play in the academy. you're plain and simply wrong. axxman just stated below that fcd only picked 4 players born in 99 that played with the 00's in cl out of a roster of 17. i also got a pm from another poster who said solar only has 2 players born in 99 that played with the 00's in cl out of a roster of 15. that's a total of 6 players out of 32. how much more proof do you want that 00's playing with 01's will be at a disadvantage and that pure 01s most likely won't see the light of day on these teams?

They are looking for the best of the best correct?

Also remember Solar only has one team in Classic League at the U13 level. it doesn't matter. the majority of the players in their 99 u13 pa team this year came from outside their club.





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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by go99 on 3/20/2013, 1:11 pm

what I have seen from the younger players trying to play PA is that they struggle. It is not the 3-6 months etc it is the way they play. I watch them push the ball out and run or shoulder charge a player over and over with poor results. You have kids that were used to being able to physically dominate their world who then are mover into a situation were that will not work. They are no longer the big/fast kid and their play/skill is not good enough to isolate them from it. The teams are not looking at talent or potential, they are looking for impact now and playing the way they do, the younger players just lack the size and speed to make that impact.
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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by Sweeper20 on 3/20/2013, 1:38 pm

I think Dallas Cup will tell some of the story here. It would be great to see NTX, specifically Andromeda Red, do well this next week. Andromeda Red was a pretty good but inconsistent team the first two years of Classic League, finished 4th or 5th the first two years. I am only aware of 1bb that moved from Texans to this team, I may be wrong. Then preacademy comes along and the game changes a bit, not sure how significant it has been but I do know for the Texans it has been a significant adjustment to the Classic teams. Both in the 99 and 00 groups you had teams at the Texans that basically lost 2 games over a two year period, early classic, that are in jeopardy of being dropped to D2 because of the advent of preacademy.

Things are watered down in NTX right now due to Classic, PA, Academy it seems to me it is hard to tell who is good, who is developing talent and so forth in both PA and Classic.

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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

Post by allen04 on 3/20/2013, 1:46 pm

You have kids that were used to being able to physically dominate their world who then are mover into a situation were that will not work. They are no longer the big/fast kid and their play/skill is not good enough to isolate them from it.

I've wondered how this would play out with the introduction of age pure teams. The younger kids (in general) based on school year teams have had to learn to compensate for lack of size and physical maturity and the older kids have relied on it; now the tables have flipped.
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Re: U 13/14 Academy around the corner.......

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