Are clubs in general having to change their " Business as usual " approach , due to the fact that the paying public is becoming alittle more savey to the BS- games they try to play?? With Forums like these more info is available for parents to make educated decisions. Are the clubs always on the offensive trying to figure out new marketing angles to keep ahead of the progression of a more informed consumer?.

Example . Texans taking over dallas cup ?? Transparent at best. A Little factoid. parents.. THE BEST players from HN's arsenal of all his age groups will be the ones playing .. Jr may be on the team in Dallas but that doesn't mean he'll play.. They will bring in the max # of guest players allowed.

Coffee taulk now discuss.

omega striker wrote:so whats your point exactly?

Sorry mabey a little cloudy.
Point being as kids start earlier in academy, alot of parents have already been exposed to comp soccer . the politics, the games, ect , for 3 to 4 years before they even get to true select.This in turn can make it alot harder for clubs to, in essence, pull the wool over their eyes. Forums like this one provide more information I. E " DIRT" that parents did not have available 5 to 8 years ago. So the question is ( Is the consumer getting smarter ) or are we and all those that follow still making the same redundant mistakes that have been made in the past.

Sorry if thats still cloudy . It's past 5:00 on fri

Plantit is right, these forums do make for a more saavy consumer, but the clubs are still on the supply side and will remain so as there is no competitive sport without them. The Dallas Cup deal was genius - I would imagine it will sway a lot of U11/12 movement in future years. You are right about the guesting as well - it will only help in the next year's recruiting process.
Not sure we have any more power over the clubs, but definitely more information (some of it is even accurate and true).

clueless wrote:Plantit is right, these forums do make for a more saavy consumer, but the clubs are still on the supply side and will remain so as there is no competitive sport without them. The Dallas Cup deal was genius - I would imagine it will sway a lot of U11/12 movement in future years. You are right about the guesting as well - it will only help in the next year's recruiting process.
Not sure we have any more power over the clubs, but definitely more information (some of it is even accurate and true).

It may sway some if that is their intended goal to play d/c. Alot out there are still jaded to the Hassan freight train. Some will see the advantage , some will still never buy into the texans system.

As far as recruting I am mostly reffering to players he will bring in from out of the metroplex , therefore making recruting a mute point . In fact it may be more of a detriment due to the locals he will piss off.

We the consumers, empower the clubs. As a more educated consumer mabey there is a chance of influencing their programs going forward. If we all line up like pigions being lead to the cat ,no changes will ever happen. Status quo!

quick follow up - i understand if your child is in high school, then a club is probably beneficial, but for 5th -8th grade, what is the benefit of droping 3k+? Is the coaching really that superior to a mom / dad who has experience playing at a high level?

AllDay12 wrote:quick follow up - i understand if your child is in high school, then a club is probably beneficial, but for 5th -8th grade, what is the benefit of droping 3k+? Is the coaching really that superior to a mom / dad who has experience playing at a high level?

#1 Even in the crazy North Texas Soccer world you do not have to drop $3K per year to get quality coaching
#2 your kid needs quality coaching long before high school.
#3 whether the coaching is superior to a parent depends on the coach and parent, but generally yes a good coach is going to be superior and more experienced than a parent. Plus the coach is likely to be a bit more objective.

THE NEEDLE wrote:

AllDay12 wrote:quick follow up - i understand if your child is in high school, then a club is probably beneficial, but for 5th -8th grade, what is the benefit of droping 3k+? Is the coaching really that superior to a mom / dad who has experience playing at a high level?

#1 Even in the crazy North Texas Soccer world you do not have to drop $3K per year to get quality coaching
#2 your kid needs quality coaching long before high school.
#3 whether the coaching is superior to a parent depends on the coach and parent, but generally yes a good coach is going to be superior and more experienced than a parent. Plus the coach is likely to be a bit more objective.

i hear this argument often and i just do not understand why a coach is more superior than a parent (who has played soccer at a high level - like college) just because the coach went and got a license. The license doesn't make that person a superior coach. i agree with you that a coach might be more objective, but that coach is also ony looking out for his best interest and not the players - the coach wants to get paid. so which clubs can a child play at and not pay 3k+? i have not heard of one, but would love to find that club.

Unfortunately, it's not just about the coaching. It's about being on the field with players who can raise your level of play. Most of the teams in the Classic League are from the bigger clubs. There are a few teams from smaller clubs. As far as price, we looked at Genesis and were pleased with the practice sessions. We chose to pay more for a team already in the Classic League instead. Getting out of Plano or Arlington is tough for teams and it is usually easier to make a Classic team in July than to get your team to make it to the Classic league.

There are some very good benefits from a professional coach who has professional playing experience and played at the highest levels of soccer (like Europe, Africa, South America, etc.). We have a goalie coach that goalies who are top level goalies in Classic League pick for special training. All goalies in our club rountinely get training with this coach. Our goalie coach played goalie in the world cup for his country. He is remarkably good at making good goalies great. We have team coaches with very strong technical programs that teach young players the skill, field awareness, and tactical abilities to control and posses the soccer ball during small sided games and actual game situations. This level of skill takes many years to develop and is easiest to develop (like touch on the ball) pre-puberty years. It is much harder to develop the touch on the ball needed to possess the ball during game situations at older age levels without this development. Without proper training and skill development, coaches rely on shear athleticism of their players to tackle and win the ball and send the ball up to the big, strong player who when pointed straight can outrun the defense to usually shot the ball in the goal. These players can also win balls in the air and kick them downfield so that big, fast strong player can get a lucky break on the defense and if maybe get it in the net with a one on one goalie situation. This level of play is more recreation like than what is expected at the highest levels of competitive youth play and college and beyond. So depends on what kind of coaching you want volunteer, professional (someone with proper credentials and playing experience along with solid reputation for developing players who advance to the better Division I, II, and III college soccer programs and beyond). Beware there are alot of "professional" coaches who are not good at developing players so due your due diligence.

AllDay12 wrote:

THE NEEDLE wrote:

AllDay12 wrote:quick follow up - i understand if your child is in high school, then a club is probably beneficial, but for 5th -8th grade, what is the benefit of droping 3k+? Is the coaching really that superior to a mom / dad who has experience playing at a high level?

#1 Even in the crazy North Texas Soccer world you do not have to drop $3K per year to get quality coaching
#2 your kid needs quality coaching long before high school.
#3 whether the coaching is superior to a parent depends on the coach and parent, but generally yes a good coach is going to be superior and more experienced than a parent. Plus the coach is likely to be a bit more objective.

i hear this argument often and i just do not understand why a coach is more superior than a parent (who has played soccer at a high level - like college) just because the coach went and got a license. The license doesn't make that person a superior coach. i agree with you that a coach might be more objective, but that coach is also ony looking out for his best interest and not the players - the coach wants to get paid. so which clubs can a child play at and not pay 3k+? i have not heard of one, but would love to find that club.

I will certainly give club coaches more credit than that .. Some club coaches are just converted parents , alot are not . What you are paying for is a grading system . A stick out there for which to measure your childs performance. Clubs, C/L are the high standard set by the soccer community. They are both a ( melting pot ) for soccer talent in NTX. Quality coaching and quality teaching are NOT one in the same. Needle is right some coaches accrue the talent and just coach it. But it doesn't mean they have taught the player crap. They identify the players talent and get the most out of it. Soccer is morphing at a "break neck" speed with mind numbing non originallity, so very few parents who played at a high level are qualified to coach it . Unless the parent is 17. Mabey this is our problem?

ALLDAY. you are putting all coaches in the same basket when really they are very diverse. If they did not have the pressure of results at a young age, you would see alot more diversity in the dirrerent styles of coaching . For now ? We as parents grade them on only one thing WINNING.They are only following the mandate most have set, therefore we get what we ask for, ER, deserve . Kick it to the fast kid and have him shoot it over a 4'5" goalie from 25yards out .

Back to the teaching aspect . If I was a coach, what incentive would I really have to teach? Knowing full well that after I developed a player . the chances of that player staying with me are nill ,unless we are winning. This is also where the gray lines begin to blur. We, as a more saavy consumer, need to change our thought process. Very few TEACH ! They upgrade, recrute, transfer. And we " the saavy consumer " beleive it hook line and sinker, as developement and coaching. Select soccer is a cleche exasperated by rankings , standings and top teams. Look can YOUR kid (stand alone) play the game are not . Thats what friggin matters. Thats all that will EVER matter.

Being a parent who played the game and has a coaching licence I have not been overly impressed with the coaching my son has had in the nearly 3 years of classic league play. The big clubs are all about money and the smaller clubs basically tell you there are plenty clubs out there. We started out at a smaller club and are now at a bigger club which I vowed I would never do (due to the over inflated club fees) but circumstances led us there. It has been a complete waste of money and in truth at least 2 thirds of the squad should not be anywhere near classic league. The season can't end quick enough and the search begins again for a club that has the kids interest and not how much money they can fleece from you!

plantit - your right, i was putting all the coaches in the same basket for sake of argument. i completely agree that there are great coaches and there are bad coaches (more bad and than great). this is very obvious at every level of every sport and i do believe that there are only a handful of superior coaches in north texas.

soccernovice - i agree with you that the earlier a player starts, the easier it is to develop the skills. however, this is blanket statment and we all know kids develop at different stages. however, it is hard for me to believe that a parent has to start paying money for his bb at 7/8 to be a skilled player when he is 16/17. a players will to get better along with hard work can create a skilled player as much as a great coach.

i guess my previous posts were not worded correctly. i was trying to speak in regards to being a smart consumer. so i will try again. this thread started out asking if the consumer was getting smarter, but it sounds like the consumer is not getting smarter. i think it is ridiculous that a parent has to pay 3k+ for their bb to play competitive soccer. how many bb at u11 will be playing at u15? how many will have a realistic shot at playing college? if you pay for your bb to play sdl from 5th through 8th grade, you just dropped at least 12k, probably closer to 15k on what each of you are calling superior coaching. i am not sure that any youth coach is worth that amount, but i could be wrong. as i previously stated, once in high school then i think paying for a more experienced coach has merit.

clubs put their best coaches with the best kids, which means d1. that means that if your bb is playing d3 or lower with say Texans, you are not getting great coaching, yet your still paying 3k+. there are only 10 d1 teams, the rest are d2, d3, or lower. so from a consumer point of view, you are getting less for your money. so again, my answer would be that the consumer is not getting smarter.

plantit, soccernovice, mr. clean - what are you expecting in return for you 15k? from what i read on this forum, scholarship money is very small, so spending tons of money trying to get a scholarship is not being a smart consumer. one could save/invest that money to pay for their sons college.

until parents become smarter consumers, there is always going to be clubs getting rich off of us pigeons. i am not drinking the club soccer kool-aid even though i am a pigeon. i bet majority of the parents wish they were a smarter consumer when their bb was 11.

Most experts seem to agree that highschool age is too late to start developing a player. And yes most of the coaching in N Texas is bad but it is what we asked for. WE asked for wins and the clubs strive to give it to us. However much I spend on the soccer I do it for one reason. My bb decided he wanted to play soccer and be one of the best in the world. I pay for coaching and developement to help him become the best he can be at his chosen hobby. I pay the bills and the rest will be up to his hard work, natural talent and desire. Only time will tell how far he can go and if it ends he can find another dream. If you have expectation of scholorships etc then you should just invest the money and pull you kid out of soccer. BTW one of the best coaches at FCD has his college team and a plano premier fcd team. Unbelievable training, developement and has even brought in other college coaches. He does more for a plano premier team than 99% of coaches in CL. My bb coach has always said at this age it is not about the team, it is about the individual players. The wins don't matter, the way you play does. Easy to say, but it was nice to see him get on the team after the last win. He said he was more proud of the prior game that they lost because the play was better. He was happy for their win but dissappointed that they decided to kick and run.

My bb's coach said boys learn a skill in 300 repetitions prior to age 13/14 while it takes over 1000 repetitions after that age (no idea if that's a fact, something he was taught - seems to make sense). So, the sooner a skill is introduced, the better. Seems like common sense. The other common sense thing, to me, is - if a kid is a good athlete can't he start later, or can't he take a year off without much of a problem? The verdict around here is definitely not.
I am totally on board with the emphasis on winning making development a big problem. Clubs demand wins, parents (majority) demand wins, coaches don't have a time to do a lot of individual skillswork due to the logistics of roster size and multiple teams. I wholeheartedely agree on the importance of having good players around you - better to be a benchwarmer on a good team than a star on a lousy team (for me, it comes down to numbers of touches and exposure in practice - versus getting your good competition only on weekends). If you are less concerned about development or teaching hardwork, IMO, it might be better to get on a lower team where playing time is more abundant. It's all a personal choice and neither way is wrong - just depends on what you are trying to teach your bb.
I don't think the consumer is getting smarter, but, with the advent of more leagues at the academy ages available, it's possible it could force a change in the clubs as well (doubtful). The amount of money is staggering as teams travel - baseball, hockey, golf, tennis can kill you with individual skillswork as well as travel if you chose to go that route. Can't wait for my grandson to be in a $20,000 per year league around 2030.
Go, I like the quote about it being about the player not the team at that age - makes sense (just don't tell the other parents on the team).

AllDay12 wrote:plantit - your right, i was putting all the coaches in the same basket for sake of argument. i completely agree that there are great coaches and there are bad coaches (more bad and than great). this is very obvious at every level of every sport and i do believe that there are only a handful of superior coaches in north texas.

soccernovice - i agree with you that the earlier a player starts, the easier it is to develop the skills. however, this is blanket statment and we all know kids develop at different stages. however, it is hard for me to believe that a parent has to start paying money for his bb at 7/8 to be a skilled player when he is 16/17. a players will to get better along with hard work can create a skilled player as much as a great coach.

i guess my previous posts were not worded correctly. i was trying to speak in regards to being a smart consumer. so i will try again. this thread started out asking if the consumer was getting smarter, but it sounds like the consumer is not getting smarter. i think it is ridiculous that a parent has to pay 3k+ for their bb to play competitive soccer. how many bb at u11 will be playing at u15? how many will have a realistic shot at playing college? if you pay for your bb to play sdl from 5th through 8th grade, you just dropped at least 12k, probably closer to 15k on what each of you are calling superior coaching. i am not sure that any youth coach is worth that amount, but i could be wrong. as i previously stated, once in high school then i think paying for a more experienced coach has merit.

clubs put their best coaches with the best kids, which means d1. that means that if your bb is playing d3 or lower with say Texans, you are not getting great coaching, yet your still paying 3k+. there are only 10 d1 teams, the rest are d2, d3, or lower. so from a consumer point of view, you are getting less for your money. so again, my answer would be that the consumer is not getting smarter.

plantit, soccernovice, mr. clean - what are you expecting in return for you 15k? from what i read on this forum, scholarship money is very small, so spending tons of money trying to get a scholarship is not being a smart consumer. one could save/invest that money to pay for their sons college.

until parents become smarter consumers, there is always going to be clubs getting rich off of us pigeons. i am not drinking the club soccer kool-aid even though i am a pigeon. i bet majority of the parents wish they were a smarter consumer when their bb was 11.

My answer would be the expierence of it all. I have the means so the money is only a part of the issue. If my bb's were not playing soccer all the time, the money would still be spent entertaining them with something else. Do I wish it were cheaper ??? SURE. It is my feeling that playing at a high level in anything only brings out the best of what we have. The approach bb's take to soccer translates down to schoolwork, taking care of themselves , focusing on tasks,developement of a stronger will & desire and structure. So is the money being pissed away? SURE. But at the same time I have never felt that it's been wasted.

Money will be an issue for a lot of us next year if this Economy doesn't turnaround quickly and put people in jobs besides these high paid coaches.