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Copa Qualifier 11/15-17

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Re: Copa Qualifier 11/15-17

Post by Enzo123 on 11/18/2013, 8:54 am

My kid plays on the 07 PST team.We are a tight knit group and winning at all cost is not our motto.Our kids and parents love our coach and wouldn't trade him for anyone . Let's all move on.

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Re: Copa Qualifier 11/15-17

Post by Top Corner Goalkeepers on 11/18/2013, 9:01 am

How about we look at the situation with different teams. One team being a team that has just lost every game due the fall season but then a week later in a tournament they go and win it because they have a player on the squad that didnt play for them through the fall season but has just appeared from no where and doesn't have the correct paperwork. Would we all be like its only a 6 years old soccer team. I don't think so

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Re: Copa Qualifier 11/15-17

Post by donotquestion on 11/18/2013, 9:03 am

TMT7 wrote:I don't think you know who I am at all or the kids that I coach or the ages. I have teams from beginners to some of the most advance at all ages and I started off with maybe 5 kids in February and now possibly will be coaching over 200 in the spring and you can go ask any parent who has had their kid with me and ill guarantee you that they will all say I was their kids favorite coach. I care for all my players and no one knows the things that have gone on. After the SDL game a andromeda parent with the coach came behind my manager and yelled trash at his face in the parking lot, the parents of the player protested even asked to just sit the kid if we played andromeda because they did not want any issues. Everyone can have an opinion but maybe see some of the other teams the coach has before going crazy about winning. I had a team in psa that lost multiple times to andromeda and I never threw one fit. I think oglesby, the coach of the Liverpool barnes team, and any of the top 06 team coaches will tell you I don't care about losing. The games I've enjoyed most was playing those great teams because our boys gain so much from it. I had 3 06 teams I was coaching in the psa and some of them took so bad losses, but you know what every kid grew a bunch from the beginning of the season and that's what matters. My reputation around Dallas is a great one especially in the Jesuit/highland park area where I spend a lot of time volunteering and helping coach. Go ask any parent that belongs to PST what the club motto is and what do they think of me. Thanks I wish your son luck as well.
Coach, I do not have a kid in the U7 age group, but there are two things that jump out at me:
1) If you did in fact get DQ'd from the tournament you can point the finger all you want but you are the one who is ultimately responsible for your team, period.
2)The fact the you are bashing another coach, who I know has a great reputation and has for years on a soccer forum should speak volumes about you, period.

I have know Volkan for a long time and how you are trying to depict Volkan on here is so far from the truth that it is comical..To say that he was talking trash to your team manager. Ok

Good luck to your team.

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Re: Copa Qualifier 11/15-17

Post by u309247 on 11/18/2013, 9:06 am

TMT7,

You missed the whole point of the post. Take ownership, learn and build from it. The situation this weekend was caused from a rules violation nothing else.

If your team is as good as what I have seen, you dont need illegal players. You will be fine with your normal group.

Sounds like if your player was going to sit if they met Andro, the parents knew they were in the wrong to begin with.

Good luck to you in the future and keep building. Im sure the PST team will be great if it is done the right way for many year in the future

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Re: Copa Qualifier 11/15-17

Post by Bears on 11/18/2013, 10:34 am

I've never met the Coach for PST but I’m willing to bet he’s very young and his inexperience is evident. He mentions a child by name. He mentions repeatedly how many times his teams have beaten another team and yet claims wins don't matter to him. He mentions that he only started with 5 players in February and now has 200 players. He brings up Volkan's wife repeatedly as if to suggest even Volkan's wife thinks he's ridiculous. (That right there is so juvenile that it has me thinking that maybe, just maybe, he’s actually still in high school.) He mentions that he was DQed but takes ZERO ownership that a rules violation was ultimately found. In fact, he's not even embarrassed that his team was disqualified from this tournament. Nope. He's the victim of some other coach's personal vengeance. I teach my kids to respect rules and authority and this coach apparently has respect for neither. I teach my kids to take responsibility when they make a mistake and this coach is apparently unwilling to do so. My kids don’t get a free pass from doing the right thing because of their ages. The coach doth protest too much.

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Re: Copa Qualifier 11/15-17

Post by DragonStryker on 11/18/2013, 11:30 am

There's just nothing like breaking the rules and blaming someone else, better yet, there's nothing like breaking the rules and blaming the person that turned you in. You're the same type coach that would play an overage kid and then say "I didn't know" with a straight face and argue you and your team shouldn't be subject to sanctions because it "hurts the kids". The sport has rules, tuournaments have rules, leagues have rules, and quite frankly, the sport has no room for guys like you who think they don't apply. Whether you're coaching 6 year olds or 16 year olds. It doesn't matter how good you say you are with the kids, it doesn't matter if you are the best skills coach to ever walk the Earth, it doesn't matter how good your relationship to the parents on your team is, the sport would be better off without guys that knowingly break the rules and then try to blame the party that actually stood up and did the right thing. It would be better off without guys like you. Especially at the youth level.

Your attempt to blame the party that stood up for the rules for your own shortcomings and faults is quite telling as to your character.
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Re: Copa Qualifier 11/15-17

Post by Enzo123 on 11/18/2013, 12:56 pm

As a PST parent, we will move forward and make sure we know all of the rules to make sure this never happens again. My question to the coaches? If one of your u7 players wants to play with his friends on his other team which he has played with in the past..Would you pay 100.00 to protest and dq the team he is playing with at the tournament? Or would you grant your u7 player to play with his friends?

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Re: Copa Qualifier 11/15-17

Post by Firewater on 11/18/2013, 1:02 pm

TMT7 wrote:07Dad I don't have to spin it anyway, we know what happened was due to one mans ego and don't say players! You guys paid $100 to protest the 1 player who no longer wanted to play for you guys and then felt bad after everyone found out what happened and then his wife spent the rest of the day yesterday trying to get a hold of me while her husband was at the fields. I don't feel bad at all because what we did was not wrong and innocent 6 year old kids were heart broken and one single player was singled out and at 6 he had to sit there while dawn told us we were DQ'd because his pass card still was to andromeda and he played with PST. His response was "I just want to play with my friends". I care for every single player I coach and when someone hurts them I'm not going to be happy. But I'm done with you guys and I'll let our club presidents talk about this situation. Good luck to you guys and that offer for the winter league is still open for y'all.
So, to clear this up;

1. You knew the player was not properly rostered on your team and you played him anyway? 

2.  The players parents knew he was not properly rostered on your team and allowed him to play?

3. Your manager knew he was not properly rostered on your team and allowed him to play?

When he asked what was going on, you should have said, "we screwed up and it costs us the tournament."  

Make sure to remind the manager you need all the paperwork done before tournaments and you should be good to go for the next one.
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Re: Copa Qualifier 11/15-17

Post by DragonStryker on 11/18/2013, 1:16 pm

Enzo123 wrote:As a PST parent, we will move forward and make sure we know all of the rules to make sure this never happens again. My question to the coaches? If one of your u7 players wants to play with his friends on his other team which he has played with in the past..Would you pay 100.00 to protest and dq the team he is playing with at the tournament? Or would you grant your u7 player to play with his friends?
At what age do you start teaching your child that the rules matter? Or is it that only certain rules matter? Or perhaps, rules only matter when it comes to other teams, just not mine?

BTW - it's your coach's job and your manager's job to know the rules beforehand, ignorance is absolutely no excuse.

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Re: Copa Qualifier 11/15-17

Post by TMT7 on 11/18/2013, 1:22 pm

Firewater the player was on the tournament roster and paper work was all filed and cleared the issue was that his player card was Andromedas and we did not know that at age 6 you needed a release form. Our manager does the paper work and he had everything set but that was something we did not know. I do accept responsibility for that part. The kids parents had no idea they needed a release form because he's played with us many of times and it had never been an issue. It happened it's done and we will make sure we take care of anything we need before the next tournaments.

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Re: Copa Qualifier 11/15-17

Post by Bears on 11/18/2013, 1:46 pm

Enzo123 wrote:As a PST parent, we will move forward and make sure we know all of the rules to make sure this never happens again. My question to the coaches? If one of your u7 players wants to play with his friends on his other team which he has played with in the past..Would you pay 100.00 to protest and dq the team he is playing with at the tournament? Or would you grant your u7 player to play with his friends?
Your questions are evidence of a larger problem, a failure to take responsibility. You, like your coach, are acting as if your team and the players were the victims.  We didn’t know the rules but we will next time. Really? It’s my understanding that despite noncompliance with the rules, your team actually played in the tournament.  What you’re complaining about is apparently getting caught and being denied the right to advance.  So we're right back to this being all about winning.  This was a teachable moment and you, my friend, have missed the point completely.  Would I pay $100 to expose someone who wasn’t following the rules? Yes. As a parent, it’s my responsibility to not only talk the talk but to walk the walk as well.  Frankly, I’m stunned Enzo that your dismay is with the person who had the audacity to present the misdeed to the tournament governance rather than with your coach and manager who you have admitted didn’t know how to do their jobs.  

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Re: Copa Qualifier 11/15-17

Post by Bears on 11/18/2013, 1:58 pm

TMT7 wrote:Nothing was worse then telling them they had been DQ'd because a coach hates them so bad that he didn't want them to win.
Coach is THAT really what you told your team? You decided to create some villian  because it's easier then saying I made a mistake and I'm sorry? That.Is.Plain.Wrong.

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Re: Copa Qualifier 11/15-17

Post by Se_la_perdio! on 11/18/2013, 4:44 pm

TMT7 wrote:Firewater the player was on the tournament roster and paper work was all filed and cleared the issue was that his player card was Andromedas and we did not know that at age 6 you needed a release form. Our manager does the paper work and he had everything set but that was something we did not know. I do accept responsibility for that part. The kids parents had no idea they needed a release form because he's played with us many of times and it had never been an issue. It happened it's done and we will make sure we take care of anything we need before the next tournaments.
so first its the fault of the big bad andromeda coach with an over apologetic wife who killed the hopes and dreams of these angelic 6 years olds who will probably be scarred for life for not being able to play an epic game against an iconic adromeda team.

now its an incompetent team manager who did not know that he had to ask the ignorant parents of this bb for a guest player release from the team that he is registered with.

thanks for bringing closure.

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Re: Copa Qualifier 11/15-17

Post by DragonStryker on 11/18/2013, 4:55 pm

Se_la_perdio! wrote:
TMT7 wrote:Firewater the player was on the tournament roster and paper work was all filed and cleared the issue was that his player card was Andromedas and we did not know that at age 6 you needed a release form. Our manager does the paper work and he had everything set but that was something we did not know. I do accept responsibility for that part. The kids parents had no idea they needed a release form because he's played with us many of times and it had never been an issue. It happened it's done and we will make sure we take care of anything we need before the next tournaments.
so first its the fault of the big bad andromeda coach with an over apologetic wife who killed the hopes and dreams of these angelic 6 years olds who will probably be scarred for life for not being able to play an epic game against an iconic adromeda team.

now its an incompetent team manager who did not know that he had to ask the ignorant parents of this bb for a guest player release from the team that he is registered with.

thanks for bringing closure.
Oh I'm sure there's someone else blame can be cast upon. Lets not be so quick to call for closure.
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Re: Copa Qualifier 11/15-17

Post by u309247 on 11/18/2013, 11:23 pm

The great news for the 07 group is someone was exposed for who he really is this weekend. The bad news for NTSA is he is claiming to be coaching over 200 kids in the spring. My advice to 07 teams is question their roster and demand proof of every player before every game when you see them. It is the only way to protect the rest of the kids playing in this age group. It's pathetic that the excuse is the parents didn't think it would be an issue. If it wasn't going to be an issue just ask your coach for your release and get your card. The rules are clear but then again the only thing clear in this mess is PST 07's will do anything they can to win and rules don't apply to them. In this whole mess I have yet to see the coach step out and say he was in the wrong. It is everyone else's fault so far other than his. This is exactly the reason why the coach and player should face NTSA and explain the situation and why they shouldn't be suspended. The rules are in place to protect all and not to be broken by a chosen few. Good luck 07's, it sounds like you already have your first coach that's above the rules.

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Re: Copa Qualifier 11/15-17

Post by finish1 on 11/19/2013, 8:09 am

We live in a victim society where personal accountability takes a back seat to blame. The coach should be ashamed of his actions, first, by not owning up to his own mistakes, then by bringing his false victimization to a public forum.

These types of folks are all over the workplace environment and it is challenging to keep them on task with responsibility. It's ok to make mistakes. We all do. It's not ok to blame your mistakes on other people.

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Re: Copa Qualifier 11/15-17

Post by Number13 on 11/19/2013, 9:09 am

This is Academy soccer.  Rosters are very fungible.  Kids are going to change "clubs" on a weekly basis.    It's my understanding that is intentional.  So whatever, if you are getting fired up about paperwork or lack of a US club release for legitimate age kids at U7 you are iceskating uphill for no great reason, IMO.  

Maybe I don't understand the situation.   Sounds like the team that used the kid just wanted to win and the team that reported the kid just wanted to win.  How do you decide who is the jerk in this situation?  (easy, its always the other guy).
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Re: Copa Qualifier 11/15-17

Post by Soccerinsanity on 11/19/2013, 9:54 am

Fungible? Does that mean the coaches are growing the teams in sh** like mushrooms?
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Re: Copa Qualifier 11/15-17

Post by DragonStryker on 11/19/2013, 10:48 am

Number13 wrote:This is Academy soccer.  Rosters are very fungible.  Kids are going to change "clubs" on a weekly basis.    It's my understanding that is intentional.  So whatever, if you are getting fired up about paperwork or lack of a US club release for legitimate age kids at U7 you are iceskating uphill for no great reason, IMO.  

Maybe I don't understand the situation.   Sounds like the team that used the kid just wanted to win and the team that reported the kid just wanted to win.  How do you decide who is the jerk in this situation?  (easy, its always the other guy).
You're right, Academy soccer is set up to allow the kids to move around, but there are still rules around that.

To the best of my knowledge...
1) You can't play multiple games on the same day for different teams (you can play for 2 teams if one plays in a Saturday league and one in a Sunday league, but you can't roster on two teams playing in Saturday leagues).
2) You can't be rostered on two different teams within the same league
3) You can't be rostered on two different teams within the same tournament.

And PST got caught because someone cared enough about the rules to prostest the team. Though in the eyes of their coach, rules either shouldn't apply to 7 yr olds, rules shouldn't apply to his team, rules shouldn't apply becausing winning isn't important, rules shouldn't apply when you're coaching 200 boys, rules shouldn't apply... (am sure there are other excuses he's tossed out in this thread but summarizing all of them would take way too long).
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Re: Copa Qualifier 11/15-17

Post by Number13 on 11/19/2013, 11:17 am

DragonStryker wrote:
And PST got caught because someone cared enough about the rules to prostest the team.  
Yes, somebody cared enough about something to protest the team.  

I mean, I can rules lawyer with anybody, but on this topic I'll continue to operate under the belief that there is no good reason within the spirit of the laws to deny a correctly-aged Academy kid the chance to play soccer with the team that he wants to play with that given weekend.   I guess its fortunate that every coach/team I knew in our age group felt the same way. .

I don't know the PST guy.
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Re: Copa Qualifier 11/15-17

Post by DragonStryker on 11/19/2013, 11:22 am

Number13 wrote:
DragonStryker wrote:
And PST got caught because someone cared enough about the rules to prostest the team.  
Yes, somebody cared enough about something to protest the team.  

I mean, I can rules lawyer with anybody, but on this topic I'll continue to operate under the belief that there is no good reason within the spirit of the laws to deny a correctly-aged Academy kid the chance to play soccer with the team that he wants to play with that given weekend.   I guess its fortunate that every coach/team I knew in our age group felt the same way.  .

I don't know the PST guy.
So at what age do the rules start to matter? Should all rules be ignored for correctly aged academy kids or just this particular one? And who decides which one's should be ignored and which one's shouldn't? Is there a list somewhere (I'd like to know which one's my son's team should follow and which one's we can ignore)? Or is it decided on the fly? And are rules ignored consistently from team to team or do this only apply to certain teams?

Isn't it simpler and fairer to all teams involved if everyone simply follows the rules as written?
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Re: Copa Qualifier 11/15-17

Post by finish1 on 11/19/2013, 11:51 am

Those rules are broken all the time in Academy soccer. There are plenty of serial parents out there who hop around from team to team on any given weekend and/or tournament. Been going on for years.

These 2 coaches don't like each other and decided going to war was the solution.
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Re: Copa Qualifier 11/15-17

Post by Number13 on 11/19/2013, 2:23 pm

DragonStryker wrote:
To the best of my knowledge...
1) You can't play multiple games on the same day for different teams (you can play for 2 teams if one plays in a Saturday league and one in a Sunday league, but you can't roster on two teams playing in Saturday leagues).  
2) You can't be rostered on two different teams within the same league
3) You can't be rostered on two different teams within the same tournament.

And PST got caught because someone cared enough about the rules to prostest the team.
Help me understand here, cause really its not clear at all, what did this guy do?   Which of your three "you can't do this" things do you think were violated by the PST coach?  Cause it sounds to me like none of them.  Its completely possible that I don't have any idea, frankly I'm more interested in the general topic than this specific instance.  My whole point is that its not always as simple as you think to get a clean USCS roster.  

I've seen kids play in one league on Saturday for one team.  And for another team in another league on Sunday.  That's perfectly legal in your list of things. There is no way to get that totally legal on a US Club roster.  Are we calling the Region 3 USCS admin every Saturday night to get the kid released?   Or do we not follow the rules?   Do we get him released ONCE, get a card issued, then quick print out a roster....then pretend that roster is legal for the whole season when we know the kid is still hopping around to other teams?  

DragonStryker wrote: So at what age do the rules start to matter?  Should all rules be ignored for correctly aged academy kids or just this particular one?  And who decides which one's should be ignored and which one's shouldn't?  Is there a list somewhere (I'd like to know which one's my son's team should follow and which one's we can ignore)?  Or is it decided on the fly?  And are rules ignored consistently from team to team or do this only apply to certain teams?

Isn't it simpler and fairer to all teams involved if everyone simply follows the rules as written?
I'm very familiar with the whole US Club roster thing.  Its EASY to add a kid to your US Club roster (you just type him in), sometimes though its HARD to get a kid on your roster without an asterisk because he's been on infinite other teams and needs releases (from another club) to make that asterisk disappear.  With the talk of failure to get guest releases, it really sounds to me like this is just a case of fighting over that asterisk.  Maybe that's not a fair representation of what went on in this instance, but its definitely what has gone completely unprotested in our age group for many years.  Yes, a merry band of scofflaws are we.  IF you are going to raise a stink about every asterisk'd kid on a US Club Soccer roster you are gonna have a lot of protests in your future.  

I figure its fairer to operate as the system intended.  Its simpler to just worry about yourself and not about anybody else.  Is the intent of Academy soccer for a player to be bound to a team for any significant length of time?  Its my understanding that the answer is not just "No" but "Hell No".   If you require kids to get releases from a club to be strictly legal, you are gonna end of restricting the whole basic tenet of letting the kids play with whomever.  End of story.

Ooops, I just jay-walked to grab my lunch.   So I guess I will push off the rules mattering strictly for another year.
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